Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Financial guys: Crisis incoming

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
I am pretty much on the same page as this post below. I don’t see any way around it:

1623627171218.png

I’m hedged appropriately and look forward to making a killing off this no matter which direction it goes.

1. Stock market crash: I’ve got my retirement accounts at 60% broad market stock / 40% total bond market so if we have a market crash I can just shift over to 100% stocks. Also have enough liquid to pick up a few residential rentals in this case.

2. Inflation goes out of control: own multiple residential rentals and have a handful of strategic individual stocks (Gold/silver miners, energy) as well as a bit of BTC.

Best of luck to everyone. I love financial crises
 

Alpha_Cock

A Real A Hole
Founder
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
298
I've thought this since September last year. And have missed out on the inexplicable gains for the past 9 months. Don't trust my financial prowess.
 

EdgeBest

Poster
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Messages
196
diversify and hold long and you cant lose and never worry about this stuff, just enjoy the sale prices

asset diversity - own stocks, bonds, land, collectibles, cars, gold, silver, crypto
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
Crisis incoming has been coming since the last crash ~10 years ago
Need to hear a time frame for this crisis incoming
Can't give a time frame, but what do you do if you are the Fed right now? We haven't seen inflation like this in the last ten years for sure.
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
I've thought this since September last year. And have missed out on the inexplicable gains for the past 9 months. Don't trust my financial prowess.
Many people get completely out of stocks when they get the feel that a crash is coming and it kills them in opportunity cost. "Conservative" for me in my retirement account is 50% stocks and 50% bonds. And then when I want to go aggressive I go 100% stocks. And can move the lever anywhere in between
 

ChicagoFats

Legendary
Founder
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
4,663
Can't give a time frame, but what do you do if you are the Fed right now? We haven't seen inflation like this in the last ten years for sure.

First of all, I pretty much agree with you. Real estate is my vehicle of choice to hedge vs inflation.

But for the sake of conversation i'll bring up some opposing view points.

The fed has several other tools other than interest rates to guide the economy. Corona virus was a once in a life-time event and caused supply chains to be interrupted and demand to shift dramatically. These things have caused prices to be temporarily out of equilibrium. During the time it takes to normalize, you may see higher prices. As we see supply chains normalize and return to the market we expect prices to rise at a more normal rate.

blah blah blah.
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
Now this is just silly.
Expound please. There is already a massive transfer of wealth happening from the 99% to the 1% due to inflation. The small percentage that have real assets see their wealth appreciating every day while those that have not are paying the price.

I don't agree with the 90% drop in asset prices mentioned in the original image I posted, but if the fed raises rates to slow inflation asset prices will tumble. If we even got near a 3% yield on 10 year treasuries, equities will get wrecked.

So either the inflation is going to continue on its tear, or the fed steps in to slow it down and equities take a tumble. Personally, I feel they are going to have to get rates up, but I have no idea how it will play out. I am hedged for either situation
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
First of all, I pretty much agree with you. Real estate is my vehicle of choice to hedge vs inflation.

But for the sake of conversation i'll bring up some opposing view points.

The fed has several other tools other than interest rates to guide the economy. Corona virus was a once in a life-time event and caused supply chains to be interrupted and demand to shift dramatically. These things have caused prices to be temporarily out of equilibrium. During the time it takes to normalize, you may see higher prices. As we see supply chains normalize and return to the market we expect prices to rise at a more normal rate.

blah blah blah.
Alright, so lets say that happens and prices normalize (we will say that means go back to pre-Covid levels). What happens to everyone that paid the post-Covid inflation prices? These individuals will be massively underwater on their loan payments. But not just individuals, but what about the massive financial institutions (Blackrock included), that have been buying up residential real estate over the last year?
 

ChicagoFats

Legendary
Founder
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
4,663
Alright, so lets say that happens and prices normalize (we will say that means go back to pre-Covid levels). What happens to everyone that paid the post-Covid inflation prices? These individuals will be massively underwater on their loan payments. But not just individuals, but what about the massive financial institutions (Blackrock included), that have


Leverage ..... when prices decline, and the inevitably will, the only people who will have problems are those that are over leveraged. There have been a myriad of banking regulations implemented to regulate how much leverage people and companies can take on.

So just because the price of something declines as long as they can make the payments (on their essentially intrest free loan) they will be just fine. **And if something catashtrophic happens the federal government will be there with stimmy money to support them.
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
Founder
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
16,097
First of all, I pretty much agree with you. Real estate is my vehicle of choice to hedge vs inflation.

But for the sake of conversation i'll bring up some opposing view points.

The fed has several other tools other than interest rates to guide the economy. Corona virus was a once in a life-time event and caused supply chains to be interrupted and demand to shift dramatically. These things have caused prices to be temporarily out of equilibrium. During the time it takes to normalize, you may see higher prices. As we see supply chains normalize and return to the market we expect prices to rise at a more normal rate.

blah blah blah.
Mark me down as the inflation fears being WAY overblown.

I mentioned it to CDDP earlier but the economy and dollar had responded VERY favorably to the "printing" thus far.
Now this is just silly.
Agreed.

Correction likely but the inflation we are seeing is a predictable result of policy decisions and can be backed off pretty easily.

I have plenty of capital and I'm excited to buy on a crash but folks need to back on the sky is falling shit. We've been hearing that shit for decades now and even 08 was a blip compared to a deflationary spiral (which isn't happening) like The Great Depression.
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
Mark me down as the inflation fears being WAY overblown.

I mentioned it to CDDP earlier but the economy and dollar had responded VERY favorably to the "printing" thus far.

Agreed.

Correction likely but the inflation we are seeing is a result of policy decisions and can be backed off pretty easily.

I have plenty of capital and I'm excited to buy on a crash but folks need to back on the sky is falling shit. We've been hearing that shit for decades now and even 08 was a blip compared to a deflationary spiral (which isn't happening) like The Great Depression.
I like your thoughts here.

I'm not expecting some end of the world scenario here. I just expect a big swing (+/- 25%-40%) to happen sometime over the next couple of years. I just don't know which way it will swing.
 

Cre8ive

Shaping the Future of Reality
Founder
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Messages
3,441
I am pretty much on the same page as this post below. I don’t see any way around it:

View attachment 26621

I’m hedged appropriately and look forward to making a killing off this no matter which direction it goes.

1. Stock market crash: I’ve got my retirement accounts at 60% broad market stock / 40% total bond market so if we have a market crash I can just shift over to 100% stocks. Also have enough liquid to pick up a few residential rentals in this case.

2. Inflation goes out of control: own multiple residential rentals and have a handful of strategic individual stocks (Gold/silver miners, energy) as well as a bit of BTC.

Best of luck to everyone. I love financial crises
There is always some pundit that predicts a market crash all the time, in hopes that one day they will look like a prophet. We are going to suffer from high inflation but I don' think a crash is in the cards. Hope I am right.
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
Founder
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
16,097
I like your thoughts here.

I'm not expecting some end of the world scenario here. I just expect a big swing (+/- 25%-40%) to happen sometime over the next couple of years. I just don't know which way it will swing.
25-30% on war fears with China (will also upset supply chains which will be a large part of the correct) IYAM

Likely before 2022 elections but if not late in Puddin's term.
 
Last edited:

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
25-30% on war fears with China (will also upset supply chains which will be a large part of the correct) IYAM

Likely before 2022 elections but if not late in Puddin's first term.
See here is the thing I am getting at:

Let's go with another disrupted supply chain scenario: Prices on goods and services will rise again, building materials increase, housing prices increase, etc.

How does the Fed respond? At some point you would think they HAVE to raise rates

What happens when the rates rise? People will temporarily flee from equities to the safety of higher bond yields. Equities get wrecked temporarily while we remain in an inflationary environment. Real estate would boom even further in a scenario like this, but that would further impact the haves versus the have nots.

The point I am trying to make is that it seems like the economy has been painted into a corner, and its going to have some painful short term impacts to get out (which mean opportunity if you are smart about how you set yourself up).
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
Jim Richards recommends 10% physical gold bullion minimum (20% gold if you want to be aggressive). That takes hyperinflation off the table. Own gold and invest the rest as you see fit.
I get it to some degree, but the gold and silver markets are manipulated so much its hard for the logic to play out buying gold. Plus a lot of would-be gold bugs are in the crypto game now

I own a few junior miners to play the PM trade, because if gold prices go up, a couple of them could go up astronomically. I don't care about acquiring and dealing with physical metals and no way in hell would I be buying "paper" gold.

Real Estate is the true inflation hedge like @ChicagoFats said, but if you are not in the game already its going to be tough to get in
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
PTJ must be reading my notes - this is basically what I am trying to say in this thread:

Most expect Powell will once again choose to dismiss signs of intensifying inflationary pressures and ignoring data like last week's inflation print. If that's the case, PTJ said he believes investors should keep going all in on the inflation trade.

"If they treat these numbers - which were material events, that were very material - with nonchalance, I think that's a green light on the inflation trade," Jones said in an interview on "Squawk Box".
"I’d probably buy commodities, buy crypto, buy gold."
But if the FOMC "course corrects," something few expect at this week's meeting, then markets could be in for a pumping ride.

"If they course correct, if they say, ‘We’ve got incoming data, we’ve accomplished our mission or we’re on the way very rapidly to accomplishing our mission on employment,’ then you’re going to get a taper tantrum,” Jones said.
“You’re going to get a sell-off in fixed income. You’re going to get a correction in stocks. That doesn’t necessarily mean it’s over.”
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
I guess one way to play real estate would be to find some REITs that are 100% residential (the more single family units versus multi family the better)
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
Founder
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
16,097
See here is the thing I am getting at:

Let's go with another disrupted supply chain scenario: Prices on goods and services will rise again, building materials increase, housing prices increase, etc.

How does the Fed respond? At some point you would think they HAVE to raise rates

What happens when the rates rise? People will temporarily flee from equities to the safety of higher bond yields. Equities get wrecked temporarily while we remain in an inflationary environment. Real estate would boom even further in a scenario like this, but that would further impact the haves versus the have nots.

The point I am trying to make is that it seems like the economy has been painted into a corner, and its going to have some painful short term impacts to get out (which mean opportunity if you are smart about how you set yourself up).
Yeah there is no doubt there is going to be chickens that come home to roost at some point.
 

CDDP

Legendary
Founder
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
6,466
I get it to some degree, but the gold and silver markets are manipulated so much its hard for the logic to play out buying gold. Plus a lot of would-be gold bugs are in the crypto game now

I own a few junior miners to play the PM trade, because if gold prices go up, a couple of them could go up astronomically. I don't care about acquiring and dealing with physical metals and no way in hell would I be buying "paper" gold.

Real Estate is the true inflation hedge like @ChicagoFats said, but if you are not in the game already its going to be tough to get in
Real estate that produces income is great asset to hold. I'm just saying to take the hyperinflation off the table. If you had a net worth of $10 million with $1 million in gold and the other $9 million in stocks, real estate, businesses, etc you would be fine if it went to zero and gold pulled a 10-bagger. Insurance.

Plus it's easy to avoid taxes with precious metals and to leave the country with them if shit ever hits the fan. As soon as Bitcoin stops being a store value only and becomes an everyday use currency I would put as much money in to it as I can. Too hard to use for small purchases and thus making too easy for governments to track, IMO.
 

CDDP

Legendary
Founder
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
6,466
PTJ is actually saying some pretty scary stuff. Surprised CNBC allowed that on air to be honest. Fed is trapped. Print and inflation rages vs stop printing and several bubbles blow up at the same time. If the only tool you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail. Print, Print, Print, Print.....
 

Tell_Sackett

Poster
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
170
I am pretty much on the same page as this post below. I don’t see any way around it:

View attachment 26621

I’m hedged appropriately and look forward to making a killing off this no matter which direction it goes.

1. Stock market crash: I’ve got my retirement accounts at 60% broad market stock / 40% total bond market so if we have a market crash I can just shift over to 100% stocks. Also have enough liquid to pick up a few residential rentals in this case.

2. Inflation goes out of control: own multiple residential rentals and have a handful of strategic individual stocks (Gold/silver miners, energy) as well as a bit of BTC.

Best of luck to everyone. I love financial crises
The Fed is trapped, I agree.

Reports that Buffet is hoarding silver as the shared post states? I'd like to see the supporting info for that. Silver does have industrial use and he supposedly purchased a bunch of silver in the late 90s which he sold off around 2006 but I don't believe he has stated this anywhere as of late. He has always been very anti-gold and purchasing metals as a currency hedge in his rants.
 

ChicagoFats

Legendary
Founder
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
4,663
The Fed is trapped, I agree.

Reports that Buffet is hoarding silver as the shared post states? I'd like to see the supporting info for that. Silver does have industrial use and he supposedly purchased a bunch of silver in the late 90s which he sold off around 2006 but I don't believe he has stated this anywhere as of late. He has always been very anti-gold and purchasing metals as a currency hedge in his rants.
I would be suprised if Buffet hoards silver. He has come out as very anti-gold.
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
I would be suprised if Buffet hoards silver. He has come out as very anti-gold.
Buffet was very anti-gold. He bought Barrick Gold (one of the big boys) a little under a year ago.

 

BigBucnNole

Elite
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
2,158
Expound please. There is already a massive transfer of wealth happening from the 99% to the 1% due to inflation. The small percentage that have real assets see their wealth appreciating every day while those that have not are paying the price.

I don't agree with the 90% drop in asset prices mentioned in the original image I posted, but if the fed raises rates to slow inflation asset prices will tumble. If we even got near a 3% yield on 10 year treasuries, equities will get wrecked.

So either the inflation is going to continue on its tear, or the fed steps in to slow it down and equities take a tumble. Personally, I feel they are going to have to get rates up, but I have no idea how it will play out. I am hedged for either situation

First off. 10 yr yields in 6/3/19 were 2.07, 6/1/202 were 0.66, and 6/1/21 were 1.62.

Yield curve is fairly strong right now and you can argue inflation is normalizing from the 2020 inversion/ pandemic.

Furthermore, there aren't cap or no cap as the options. If they even tried to cap the rates by effectively taking money out of circulation, they could trigger a deflationary pressure where demand would rush in for the dollar. The dollar is the world's reserve as much as it's a stock in the US economy. Prices may fall in that event, but that's only because money is scarce and harder to come by. Fun fact, that's what triggered the great depression. That is not happening and that guy is a retard for suggesting it. Granted they could inflate the currency back up and introduce inflation, but they can't introduce inflation as it is now because of the instability across the rest of the planet.

About the 1% taking 99%. That's not true. You have to almost separate into two completely different markets loosely linked, equites markets and then the general day to day consumer market. Fed is printing cash, companies are taking that cash and investing, buying, and selling equities, private and public. You've got medium size PE firms with billions of dollars they are sitting on and can move massive amounts and cash between themselves and other firms really easily now. That has a lot to do with the cheapness of money and it's impact on crazy ebitda multipliers. Then you have the consumer market, the day to day buying shit market, that's not being effected because anytime new money is printed, it's getting sucked up into leverage and investment. If there is a bubble right now, it's the M&A's, stock market, and arbitrage.

For that excess cash to affect the price level, it somehow has to get out of this ridiculous overvaluations, and into general consumers' hands. That won't happen because the consumers don't have enough credit on such a scale to be able to command those levels of cash.

Lastly, the hyper inflation scares are just snake oil salesmen trying to push gold. It's a scam. Uncontrollable hyper inflation, or even the stuff we saw in the 70's, is a very specific deal. Zimbabwe had it because their central bank was owned by one guy who destroyed their economy and exhausted any economic power Zimbabwe once had. Plus it's a resource extraction based economy that was not advanced. It didn't have any real assets to it beyond taking a bunch of peasants and forcing them to dig shit out of the ground. And labor assets have a diminishing return. Weimar Germany had a similar problem, their economic base was all but destroyed post WW1. While the factories weren't blown up, the men to work in them were killed and the reparations forced post war led to a capital shortage as there was no available wealth to reinvest, innovate, and fix the problem. IIRC the US actually set up a loan program and paid the German war debt off with a check, and let the Germans refinance and indebted only to us. The German economy stabilized, but then the great depression hit. At the end of the day, the lack of economic resources backing the currency, just like Zimbabwe, led to hyperinflation.

The US economy on the flipside is unfathomably massive. If you did a 20 year valuation on just consumer spending, at a minimum the US is valued at least at 300 trillion dollars. And that doesn't account for growth. Debt service payments are about 2% of GDP. That would be akin to a guy borrowing 65k on a 60k salary, and paying a 100 bucks a month, principal and interest. We aren't vulnerable like hyperinflation happens.

Hyperinflation would happen if we somehow lost a major war, had our economic engine destroyed, and then were saddled with many times the debt we have now. Yea if output was down to 10 trillion, millions dead, and we had 70+ trillion in debt, we'd be fucked and hyperinflation would happen. We'd lose our status as the world's reserve currency. In reality, that's virtually impossible.
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
First off. 10 yr yields in 6/3/19 were 2.07, 6/1/202 were 0.66, and 6/1/21 were 1.62.

Yield curve is fairly strong right now and you can argue inflation is normalizing from the 2020 inversion/ pandemic.

Furthermore, there aren't cap or no cap as the options. If they even tried to cap the rates by effectively taking money out of circulation, they could trigger a deflationary pressure where demand would rush in for the dollar. The dollar is the world's reserve as much as it's a stock in the US economy. Prices may fall in that event, but that's only because money is scarce and harder to come by. Fun fact, that's what triggered the great depression. That is not happening and that guy is a retard for suggesting it. Granted they could inflate the currency back up and introduce inflation, but they can't introduce inflation as it is now because of the instability across the rest of the planet.

About the 1% taking 99%. That's not true. You have to almost separate into two completely different markets loosely linked, equites markets and then the general day to day consumer market. Fed is printing cash, companies are taking that cash and investing, buying, and selling equities, private and public. You've got medium size PE firms with billions of dollars they are sitting on and can move massive amounts and cash between themselves and other firms really easily now. That has a lot to do with the cheapness of money and it's impact on crazy ebitda multipliers. Then you have the consumer market, the day to day buying shit market, that's not being effected because anytime new money is printed, it's getting sucked up into leverage and investment. If there is a bubble right now, it's the M&A's, stock market, and arbitrage.

For that excess cash to affect the price level, it somehow has to get out of this ridiculous overvaluations, and into general consumers' hands. That won't happen because the consumers don't have enough credit on such a scale to be able to command those levels of cash.

Lastly, the hyper inflation scares are just snake oil salesmen trying to push gold. It's a scam. Uncontrollable hyper inflation, or even the stuff we saw in the 70's, is a very specific deal. Zimbabwe had it because their central bank was owned by one guy who destroyed their economy and exhausted any economic power Zimbabwe once had. Plus it's a resource extraction based economy that was not advanced. It didn't have any real assets to it beyond taking a bunch of peasants and forcing them to dig shit out of the ground. And labor assets have a diminishing return. Weimar Germany had a similar problem, their economic base was all but destroyed post WW1. While the factories weren't blown up, the men to work in them were killed and the reparations forced post war led to a capital shortage as there was no available wealth to reinvest, innovate, and fix the problem. IIRC the US actually set up a loan program and paid the German war debt off with a check, and let the Germans refinance and indebted only to us. The German economy stabilized, but then the great depression hit. At the end of the day, the lack of economic resources backing the currency, just like Zimbabwe, led to hyperinflation.

The US economy on the flipside is unfathomably massive. If you did a 20 year valuation on just consumer spending, at a minimum the US is valued at least at 300 trillion dollars. And that doesn't account for growth. Debt service payments are about 2% of GDP. That would be akin to a guy borrowing 65k on a 60k salary, and paying a 100 bucks a month, principal and interest. We aren't vulnerable like hyperinflation happens.

Hyperinflation would happen if we somehow lost a major war, had our economic engine destroyed, and then were saddled with many times the debt we have now. Yea if output was down to 10 trillion, millions dead, and we had 70+ trillion in debt, we'd be fucked and hyperinflation would happen. We'd lose our status as the world's reserve currency. In reality, that's virtually impossible.
Yeah I should have been more clear in my OP. I’m not a fan of the Great Depression or Hyperinflation theory (see my reply to @America 1st above), I just am a strong believer that we are going to see a big swing in the coming months.

Personally, I don’t see inflation normalizing. The labor market is beyond fucked up right now and wages at shit jobs are up 25%+ in the last few months because no one is taking the jobs. Just talked to a guy trying to get a job as a shift manager at Arby’s for $18-$21 an hour - a job that 5 years ago paid $12/hour.

Also the IRS just sent out letters this week that they will pay ahead 50% of the child tax credit over the next month to all that will receive it (the beginning of the next stimulus).

And just wait until banks start pushing HELOCs like a mofo to “help” everyone take advantage of their new found home equity.

You make good points, and I really don’t disagree with you, but I do not see inflation normalizing. And how do you stop that? Raise rates - and not just the measly 0.25% every six months - they need to be going up much faster
 

BigBucnNole

Elite
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
2,158
Yeah I should have been more clear in my OP. I’m not a fan of the Great Depression or Hyperinflation theory (see my reply to @America 1st above), I just am a strong believer that we are going to see a big swing in the coming months.

Personally, I don’t see inflation normalizing. The labor market is beyond fucked up right now and wages at shit jobs are up 25%+ in the last few months because no one is taking the jobs. Just talked to a guy trying to get a job as a shift manager at Arby’s for $18-$21 an hour - a job that 5 years ago paid $12/hour.

Also the IRS just sent out letters this week that they will pay ahead 50% of the child tax credit over the next month to all that will receive it (the beginning of the next stimulus).

And just wait until banks start pushing HELOCs like a mofo to “help” everyone take advantage of their new found home equity.

You make good points, and I really don’t disagree with you, but I do not see inflation normalizing. And how do you stop that? Raise rates - and not just the measly 0.25% every six months - they need to be going up much faster

The dirty little secret regarding the higher paying labor wages is that it won't change much. The, what I call breakeven wage, is close to $50k a year. The welfare guys get healthcare subsidies, housing credits, don't pay taxes, and snap benefits. Their money in their pocket from a job is largely disposable. And it's on a sliding scale. Increased incomes for large swathes of the population are going to offset itself. And the magnitude isn't as large as you think.

We did a study on minimum wage here in Florida at 15 bucks an hour. Came out to base cost of 7 billion dollars annually when it was fully implemented. Florida's GDP is a trillion, for comparison. And we are also a generally lower wage state because we rely so much on tourism.

I also don't see the home situation changing too much. Lending standards are incredibly high right now. Which is why a company like Blackrock can sweep in and gobble shit up.
 

quickfeet

Get Steppin’
Founder
Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
3,543
The dirty little secret regarding the higher paying labor wages is that it won't change much. The, what I call breakeven wage, is close to $50k a year. The welfare guys get healthcare subsidies, housing credits, don't pay taxes, and snap benefits. Their money in their pocket from a job is largely disposable. And it's on a sliding scale. Increased incomes for large swathes of the population are going to offset itself. And the magnitude isn't as large as you think.

We did a study on minimum wage here in Florida at 15 bucks an hour. Came out to base cost of 7 billion dollars annually when it was fully implemented. Florida's GDP is a trillion, for comparison. And we are also a generally lower wage state because we rely so much on tourism.

I also don't see the home situation changing too much. Lending standards are incredibly high right now. Which is why a company like Blackrock can sweep in and gobble shit up.
So are you expecting things to stay fairly stable over the next couple years?
 

CDDP

Legendary
Founder
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
6,466
Stocks as a % of household financial assets hits an all-time high.

1623715047607.png




Really impressive if you take into account housing as well.

1623715128553.png
 

BigBucnNole

Elite
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
2,158
Stocks as a % of household financial assets hits an all-time high.

View attachment 26784




Really impressive if you take into account housing as well.

View attachment 26785

Two parts to that. 1) 401ks and 2) it's a select market now for housing. It's corporations and folks with high credit scores. 401ks have swapped with pensions, and now that state governments by and large have swapped with new employees coming on in the last 10 years, this was inevitable.
 

CDDP

Legendary
Founder
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
6,466
Two parts to that. 1) 401ks and 2) it's a select market now for housing. It's corporations and folks with high credit scores. 401ks have swapped with pensions, and now that state governments by and large have swapped with new employees coming on in the last 10 years, this was inevitable.
Absolutely inevitable. The wealth effect has been a goal for the FOMC dating back to Bernanke. The concept of the “wealth effect,” says that higher stock and home prices will eventually spur more consumption.

On the housing market. Do you see a shortage of people with high credit scores and cash for down payments in the next 12 months? Several articles have pointed out that subprime is not driving this. At some point all the millennials with decent jobs and good credit scores will be fully invested in homes. A lot of demand has been pulled forward. Will the government step in and force banks to loan to people with shoddy credit (under the guise of racism or sexism or whatever) to keep the party going?
 

BigBucnNole

Elite
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
2,158
On the housing market. Do you see a shortage of people with high credit scores and cash for down payments in the next 12 months? Several articles have pointed out that subprime is not driving this. At some point all the millennials with decent jobs and good credit scores will be fully invested in homes. A lot of demand has been pulled forward. Will the government step in and force banks to loan to people with shoddy credit (under the guise of racism or sexism or whatever) to keep the party going?

Certainly possible.

What looks to be going on is a population transfer from mostly the NE, some rust belt, and West Coast to Southern States. And then a secondary effect of people still living in those states moving inside the state. Kind of like musical chairs. In some cases it's wealthy millennials leaving multi family, but a lot of it is just people fed up in their own homes and wanting to change for whatever reason.

You have to keep in mind too, moving is a decision made months in advanced and saved for in many cases. So when covid hit, assuming you kept your white collar job (which you probably did) you used the new work schedule and took advantage of it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people wanting to move is exhausted in the next 12 months. It's highly likely. And I'm not sure there is enough money in REIT's to force extended periods of increased new housing construction to create a bubble. For comparison, the housing bubble of 2008 in subprime status was $1.4 trillion. That was about 5% of total housing stock. I'm not sure they have that much money.

The wild card is the renting vs buying costs. Multifamily is cheaper than buying these days.
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
Founder
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
16,097
The dirty little secret regarding the higher paying labor wages is that it won't change much. The, what I call breakeven wage, is close to $50k a year. The welfare guys get healthcare subsidies, housing credits, don't pay taxes, and snap benefits. Their money in their pocket from a job is largely disposable. And it's on a sliding scale. Increased incomes for large swathes of the population are going to offset itself. And the magnitude isn't as large as you think.

We did a study on minimum wage here in Florida at 15 bucks an hour. Came out to base cost of 7 billion dollars annually when it was fully implemented. Florida's GDP is a trillion, for comparison. And we are also a generally lower wage state because we rely so much on tourism.

I also don't see the home situation changing too much. Lending standards are incredibly high right now. Which is why a company like Blackrock can sweep in and gobble shit up.
Are you saying increasing wages on the bottom tier has no effect of total government money spent?

I must be retarded because I had a tough time figuring out what you were saying here and everyone seems to understand it just fine.
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
Founder
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
16,097
Certainly possible.

What looks to be going on is a population transfer from mostly the NE, some rust belt, and West Coast to Southern States. And then a secondary effect of people still living in those states moving inside the state. Kind of like musical chairs. In some cases it's wealthy millennials leaving multi family, but a lot of it is just people fed up in their own homes and wanting to change for whatever reason.

You have to keep in mind too, moving is a decision made months in advanced and saved for in many cases. So when covid hit, assuming you kept your white collar job (which you probably did) you used the new work schedule and took advantage of it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of people wanting to move is exhausted in the next 12 months. It's highly likely. And I'm not sure there is enough money in REIT's to force extended periods of increased new housing construction to create a bubble. For comparison, the housing bubble of 2008 in subprime status was $1.4 trillion. That was about 5% of total housing stock. I'm not sure they have that much money.

The wild card is the renting vs buying costs. Multifamily is cheaper than buying these days.
I think you're really hitting the nail on the head with the credit score shit.

At some point all those folks are going to have made their move right? You're saying before 2022?
 
Top Bottom