***Master Ukraine Conflict thread***

[America 1st]

 

[BigBucnNole]

Supposedly it’s not enough troops on the border to be able to do a full scale invasion of Ukraine. Russia would need at a minimum several hundred thousand.

 

[America 1st]

Supposedly it’s not enough troops on the border to be able to do a full scale invasion of Ukraine. Russia would need at a minimum several hundred thousand.

It will be the reverse.

Something will happen to give Russia the cover to call up more troops if you gave me a stab at how this plays out.

 

[HunterPKP]

Finally a missle expert. Quick question. Is it possible for us to use drills to drill to a given point and then put charges down to trigger an earthquake or avalanche?

Im thinking of Nokos nuclear mountain

Your sarcasm is read and understood. I’m not wrong. Have fun.

 

[JordanPetersHorn]

Your sarcasm is read and understood. I’m not wrong. Have fun.

I wasn’t being sarcastic at all actually you read that wrong. Just thinking outside the box

 

[America 1st]

Your sarcasm is read and understood. I’m not wrong. Have fun.

 

[casfoto]

When China can do anything militaristically besides get their shit pushed in every time you let me know

I certainly don't want any more wars. In reading The Fourth Turning by Lowe he describes the generational push into a major war. As Einstein said "WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones".
How many empires have fallen into destruction by wars and more wars and borrowing from the bankers to have more wars...lets count them...Rome, France,, spain,, England and the list goes on...Iraq, Syria,Lebanon, Iran, Yemen - We have never been threatened by them. We are fighting those wars for another country. Not for the US. I have always felt we needed a very strong military but for defence...Smedley Butler Birg Gneral USMC wrote the best book on that subject.."War is a Racket".

 

[casfoto]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I can tell you that our ICBM knockdown capabilities still aren't at the level they need to be. Best in the world, but still not there.

Hell, our THAAD is only around 50-60% effective against mid-range ballistic missiles. Much tougher to knockdown a SS-18 with an entry speed of 17K mph.

You are right about their accuracy and yield due to accuracy. Also, in Y2K, they begged us to come over and help modernize their ICBMs due to a Politburo belief that many could accidently arm and blow up in their silos.

The move by us on the Ukraine migtht be that the Ukraine was the breadbasket of Russia and that area. Do you remember what happened when Russia had the crop failure. Stalin came in and took the Ukranian's food. They called it the Holimodor (spell?) and there were millions of Ukraininas that starved to death because of this raid on their food.
Also, I think that our aggression towards Russia is because of their great assets. Russia has great forests, minerals, gold and silver and clean water and lot and lots of beutiful land that go on the north side of the US's new best enemy..China. We could attack China and Russia from both of our coasts and above!!!. But i have a feeling that there is a very solid defence pact between these two nations and I really doubt that they will let any of this happen. They are now mutually dependent on each other and there is no trust that anyone has left for the US. We have broken our promises too many times. Reagan and Gorbachov shaking hands saying the US will not go one inch to the east ..they didnt sign anything because a handshake was worth something at the time...handshakes are useless now. A mans word in our culture is not worth the thought. I'm sure that people would think that my thoughts on that are naive...maybe so..but it used to be a mans integrity was the only real thing that he had.

 

[America 1st]

The move by us on the Ukraine migtht be that the Ukraine was the breadbasket of Russia and that area. Do you remember what happened when Russia had the crop failure. Stalin came in and took the Ukranian's food. They called it the Holimodor (spell?) and there were millions of Ukraininas that starved to death because of this raid on their food.
Also, I think that our aggression towards Russia is because of their great assets. Russia has great forests, minerals, gold and silver and clean water and lot and lots of beutiful land that go on the north side of the US's new best enemy..China. We could attack China and Russia from both of our coasts and above!!!. But i have a feeling that there is a very solid defence pact between these two nations and I really doubt that they will let any of this happen. They are now mutually dependent on each other and there is no trust that anyone has left for the US. We have broken our promises too many times. Reagan and Gorbachov shaking hands saying the US will not go one inch to the east ..they didnt sign anything because a handshake was worth something at the time...handshakes are useless now. A mans word in our culture is not worth the thought. I'm sure that people would think that my thoughts on that are naive...maybe so..but it used to be a mans integrity was the only real thing that he had.

Russia is set for major economic expansion as the ice caps melt.

They fear China, not the US.

China has been so bold as to call themselves ban Artic nation and after the 9 dash line Russia isn't feeling real great.

All that is after the fallout between the CCP and Moscow.

Russia might not like the US but the two countries have excellent dialogue and haven't nuked each other all these years. China doesn't provide this senses of predictably to Russia and that scares the shit out of them; they are experiencing a second red scare in that country.

 

[America 1st]

 

[America 1st]

 

[HunterPKP]

We don't want additional Ukrainian infrastructure falling into Russian hands. At the same time, we don't want the additional headache of Ukraine joining NATO. There are still major ports that Russia covets from a military and oil perspective.

That being said, if a conflict did happen and we chose to enter, we would shut off the Bosporus real damn quick.

The readiness stuff is alarming, but not 100% so. They do readiness training of that magnitude at least once a year anyways. Timing of it is what's alarming. They anticipate that there may be some blowback from continued hostilities with Ukraine. Also, they aren't happy with Ukraine from them selling us SU 27s, Mig 29s, a couple of Hinds and some high level T tanks.

If you see reports that their strategic bombers forces, especially their Mach 2 bombers are approaching 24 hour readiness, then that's time to worry about conflict with NATO being truly imminent. Their TU160 Blackjack is better than anything we have not named the B2.

 

[hmt5000]

The move by us on the Ukraine migtht be that the Ukraine was the breadbasket of Russia and that area. Do you remember what happened when Russia had the crop failure. Stalin came in and took the Ukranian's food. They called it the Holimodor (spell?) and there were millions of Ukraininas that starved to death because of this raid on their food.
Also, I think that our aggression towards Russia is because of their great assets. Russia has great forests, minerals, gold and silver and clean water and lot and lots of beutiful land that go on the north side of the US's new best enemy..China. We could attack China and Russia from both of our coasts and above!!!. But i have a feeling that there is a very solid defence pact between these two nations and I really doubt that they will let any of this happen. They are now mutually dependent on each other and there is no trust that anyone has left for the US. We have broken our promises too many times. Reagan and Gorbachov shaking hands saying the US will not go one inch to the east ..they didnt sign anything because a handshake was worth something at the time...handshakes are useless now. A mans word in our culture is not worth the thought. I'm sure that people would think that my thoughts on that are naive...maybe so..but it used to be a mans integrity was the only real thing that he had.

The black seas is a bigger part of this than people realize. Russia isn't going to abandon their access to it or make their access undefendable.

 

[America 1st]

We don't want additional Ukrainian infrastructure falling into Russian hands. At the same time, we don't want the additional headache of Ukraine joining NATO. There are still major ports that Russia covets from a military and oil perspective.

That being said, if a conflict did happen and we chose to enter, we would shut off the Bosporus real damn quick.

The readiness stuff is alarming, but not 100% so. They do readiness training of that magnitude at least once a year anyways. Timing of it is what's alarming. They anticipate that there may be some blowback from continued hostilities with Ukraine. Also, they aren't happy with Ukraine from them selling us SU 27s, Mig 29s, a couple of Hinds and some high level T tanks.

If you see reports that their strategic bombers forces, especially their Mach 2 bombers are approaching 24 hour readiness, then that's time to worry about conflict with NATO being truly imminent. Their TU160 Blackjack is better than anything we have not named the B2.

Agree completely.

The black seas is a bigger part of this than people realize. Russia isn't going to abandon their access to it or make their access undefendable.

Yup. Writing is on the wall and all nations are getting ready to expand their navies. Trade is one factor but having mobile launch platforms is the name of the game these days.

 

[casfoto]

Russia is set for major economic expansion as the ice caps melt.

They fear China, not the US.

China has been so bold as to call themselves ban Artic nation and after the 9 dash line Russia isn't feeling real great.

All that is after the fallout between the CCP and Moscow.

Russia might not like the US but the two countries have excellent dialogue and haven't nuked each other all these years. China doesn't provide this senses of predictably to Russia and that scares the shit out of them; they are experiencing a second red scare in, Bolivia, Ecua that country.

This is true in the past. When you have a country of only 160 million with the largest land mass with clean water, great mineral wealth, massive forests etc vs a country of 1.4 billion living on a very constricted space then it is obvious that expansion will happen. But they have united against us (US and GB) for many reasons of which since before WW1 it has been obvious. WW2 showed it again.

The propaganda is that they are the aggressors but this is for our consumption. Anyone has been awake and reading/looking and studying the situation, it is very obvious that we have been the aggessors. Look at history- very carefully- qui bono.The corporations...those that are now bigger than most countries and control the minds of the people.(Google-FB-Twitter)..or the banking systems as Paddy Ashdown discussed in his great speech on TED talks- "The Global Power Shift"2010 (if you haven't seen this great speech then do so) he talks of the money changers that have brought the world to its knees (2008). One of the most prophetic speeches by one of the worlds great orators...And hence, we are now where he said we were going.
The big change here is that Russia, China, Iran Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, etc now realize that our whole desire is to subjugate and take their wealth and their resources. Look at South America and the Banana Republics...we have demonized Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile etc and
Columbia to give us their oil, coal, etc. Brazil is the perfect example..when things were really moving after the 2008 crash (does anyone remember the BRICS..that group that represented Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) Brazils economy was doing great under Lula. But he was a socialist supporting trade with our up and coming enemy (China-Russia) so we destroyed him and Dilma and promoted a criminal Bolonsaro. Since then Brazils economy has tanked. if you want to read the details then go to Glen Greenwalds site and read how this has happened.
MY major point is that we have lied and been lied to ...our people (GATT NAFTA), lied to our friends..NATO, lied to Russia, lied to ourselves, lied about everything in order to make money. We are now hollowed out with no moral conviction..no feeling that this is OUR country...it has been taken over using our tax dollars to do it. It would be one thing if the people in the US felt that they have benefitted from all this but we have been taken advantage of with the rest of the banana republics..The BIGBOYS -insurance, big Pharma, BIG Agriculture, BIG BIG money changers- Goldman, JPMorgan, BlackRock, BOA, Wells Fargo...have fleeced us all and their noose is tighening everyday using BIG TECH, HiTech, We just had a color revolution in our own country and we are now at the mercey of a dimwit and a VP both totally controlable by the crooks on top...who over the past months after the election have left their own people with broken promises.
Watch what happens with NATO and our pushing them into WW3 against Russia...the Neocons need to be gone. These people are a blight on our country. and the world. So...who are we voting for.?? and who are we fighting for??

 

[casfoto]

Agree completely.

Yup. Writing is on the wall and all nations are getting ready to expand their navies. Trade is one factor but having mobile launch platforms is the name of the game these days.

So, today the meeting with the heads of the EU with Erodgen...it wasn't a nice meeting. Turkey has been held with the EU promise for years. I have a feeling that Turkey is going to be with Russia...

 

[HunterPKP]

This is true in the past. When you have a country of only 160 million with the largest land mass with clean water, great mineral wealth, massive forests etc vs a country of 1.4 billion living on a very constricted space then it is obvious that expansion will happen. But they have united against us (US and GB) for many reasons of which since before WW1 it has been obvious. WW2 showed it again.

The propaganda is that they are the aggressors but this is for our consumption. Anyone has been awake and reading/looking and studying the situation, it is very obvious that we have been the aggessors. Look at history- very carefully- qui bono.The corporations...those that are now bigger than most countries and control the minds of the people.(Google-FB-Twitter)..or the banking systems as Paddy Ashdown discussed in his great speech on TED talks- "The Global Power Shift"2010 (if you haven't seen this great speech then do so) he talks of the money changers that have brought the world to its knees (2008). One of the most prophetic speeches by one of the worlds great orators...And hence, we are now where he said we were going.
The big change here is that Russia, China, Iran Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, etc now realize that our whole desire is to subjugate and take their wealth and their resources. Look at South America and the Banana Republics...we have demonized Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile etc and
Columbia to give us their oil, coal, etc. Brazil is the perfect example..when things were really moving after the 2008 crash (does anyone remember the BRICS..that group that represented Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) Brazils economy was doing great under Lula. But he was a socialist supporting trade with our up and coming enemy (China-Russia) so we destroyed him and Dilma and promoted a criminal Bolonsaro. Since then Brazils economy has tanked. if you want to read the details then go to Glen Greenwalds site and read how this has happened.
MY major point is that we have lied and been lied to ...our people (GATT NAFTA), lied to our friends..NATO, lied to Russia, lied to ourselves, lied about everything in order to make money. We are now hollowed out with no moral conviction..no feeling that this is OUR country...it has been taken over using our tax dollars to do it. It would be one thing if the people in the US felt that they have benefitted from all this but we have been taken advantage of with the rest of the banana republics..The BIGBOYS -insurance, big Pharma, BIG Agriculture, BIG BIG money changers- Goldman, JPMorgan, BlackRock, BOA, Wells Fargo...have fleeced us all and their noose is tighening everyday using BIG TECH, HiTech, We just had a color revolution in our own country and we are now at the mercey of a dimwit and a VP both totally controlable by the crooks on top...who over the past months after the election have left their own people with broken promises.
Watch what happens with NATO and our pushing them into WW3 against Russia...the Neocons need to be gone. These people are a blight on our country. and the world. So...who are we voting for.?? and who are we fighting for??

Some truth to what you are saying, but also some completely slanted bullshit in here. All countries lie to other countries. It is fact that the Soviet Union still wanted to expand the Warsaw Pact to get even better warm water ports, but knew to do so would cause WW3. Also, the invasion of Afghanistan was just the first step. The next move was a move into Iran to secure warm water ports for their Navy and ensure oil returning to Russia. Russia was far behind where they are now in oil and natural gas production in the late 70s early 80s.

I'm not saying our approach is the truly right one, but we aren't the only imperialists on the block. The Soviet Union and now Russia have being doing it as well for a solid century. China is the newer one and their thirst has no bounds.

 

[casfoto]

Some truth to what you are saying, but also some completely slanted bullshit in here. All countries lie to other countries. It is fact that the Soviet Union still wanted to expand the Warsaw Pact to get even better warm water ports, but knew to do so would cause WW3. Also, the invasion of Afghanistan was just the first step. The next move was a move into Iran to secure warm water ports for their Navy and ensure oil returning to Russia. Russia was far behind where they are now in oil and natural gas production in the late 70s early 80s.

I'm not saying our approach is the truly right one, but we aren't the only imperialists on the block. The Soviet Union and now Russia have being doing it as well for a solid century. China is the newer one and their thirst has no bounds.

ok, I agree that deceit is legendary. But I think the economic interests have changed with China and Russia et all. But all this could culminate into a nuclear war. People say that this wont happen...??? What do you think about when Obummer put in all that money into sprucing up our Nukes?

 

[casfoto]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I can tell you that our ICBM knockdown capabilities still aren't at the level they need to be. Best in the world, but still not there.

Hell, our THAAD is only around 50-60% effective against mid-range ballistic missiles. Much tougher to knockdown a SS-18 with an entry speed of 17K mph.

You are right about their accuracy and yield due to accuracy. Also, in Y2K, they begged us to come over and help modernize their ICBMs due to a Politburo belief that many could accidently arm and blow up in their silos.

I would say that because of their inaccuracy and using bigger payloads then that would be worse for us.

 

[HunterPKP]

ok, I agree that deceit is legendary. But I think the economic interests have changed with China and Russia et all. But all this could culminate into a nuclear war. People say that this wont happen...??? What do you think about when Obummer put in all that money into sprucing up our Nukes?

To be fair, we can't just let our ICBMs sit in launch tubes in missile subs or in silos in the upper midwest for perpetuity without repairing/upgrading them. They do eventually degrade to unusable after a while. I don't know of a single, conservative military mind that was against making sure our damn birds can still leave the nest to wreak destruction if absolutely necessary. Deterrent still has to be maintained. Even in the face of conjecture and treaties.

 

[HunterPKP]

I would say that because of their inaccuracy and using bigger payloads then that would be worse for us.

When we speak if inaccuracy, it's not like their birds were going to miss by 50 miles. We're talking 3-5 miles worst case. Ours are believed to be accurate within 100 feet to 0.5 miles. Still, the Soviets, knowing this, increased targeting by 3-5 times at well. For instance, Ft. Bragg was known to have 60 warheads targeted on it at the time of height of the Cold War. Also, partly the reason the Soviets made so many more nukes than we did.

Still the accuracy of their end point doesn't mean a nullifier for our defense forces there. We're trying to hit many of those birds at high altitude, well before release point and arming of the warheads. Our challenge is intercept at apex or before. Hitting those things when they hit maximum re-entry speed reduced probability of success significantly and in many cases to zero. Graphic below on where we need to hit the bird at last probably area....

 

[casfoto]

When we speak if inaccuracy, it's not like their birds were going to miss by 50 miles. We're talking 3-5 miles worst case. Ours are believed to be accurate within 100 feet to 0.5 miles. Still, the Soviets, knowing this, increased targeting by 3-5 times at well. For instance, Ft. Bragg was known to have 60 warheads targeted on it at the time of height of the Cold War. Also, partly the reason the Soviets made so many more nukes than we did.

Still the accuracy of their end point doesn't mean a nullifier for our defense forces there. We're trying to hit many of those birds at high altitude, well before release point and arming of the warheads. Our challenge is intercept at apex or before. Hitting those things when they hit maximum re-entry speed reduced probability of success significantly and in many cases to zero. Graphic below on where we need to hit the bird at last probably area....

 

[casfoto]

Thanks for the information. It's a complex world we live in...and the complexity is upon us at a high rate of speed. I read Command and Control..that would make you concerned that we are living in a dangerous world (within our country- and from out side threats.).

 

[America 1st]

 

[AgEngDawg]

Russia's main problem is that we keep putting countries in NATO that were formerly in the Soviet sphere. They hate that shit.

George H.W. Bush did promise the US would not do that, but Russia never got it in writing.

Always get it in writing.

 

[Jtrain80]

This is true in the past. When you have a country of only 160 million with the largest land mass with clean water, great mineral wealth, massive forests etc vs a country of 1.4 billion living on a very constricted space then it is obvious that expansion will happen. But they have united against us (US and GB) for many reasons of which since before WW1 it has been obvious. WW2 showed it again.

The propaganda is that they are the aggressors but this is for our consumption. Anyone has been awake and reading/looking and studying the situation, it is very obvious that we have been the aggessors. Look at history- very carefully- qui bono.The corporations...those that are now bigger than most countries and control the minds of the people.(Google-FB-Twitter)..or the banking systems as Paddy Ashdown discussed in his great speech on TED talks- "The Global Power Shift"2010 (if you haven't seen this great speech then do so) he talks of the money changers that have brought the world to its knees (2008). One of the most prophetic speeches by one of the worlds great orators...And hence, we are now where he said we were going.
The big change here is that Russia, China, Iran Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, etc now realize that our whole desire is to subjugate and take their wealth and their resources. Look at South America and the Banana Republics...we have demonized Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, Argentina, Chile etc and
Columbia to give us their oil, coal, etc. Brazil is the perfect example..when things were really moving after the 2008 crash (does anyone remember the BRICS..that group that represented Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) Brazils economy was doing great under Lula. But he was a socialist supporting trade with our up and coming enemy (China-Russia) so we destroyed him and Dilma and promoted a criminal Bolonsaro. Since then Brazils economy has tanked. if you want to read the details then go to Glen Greenwalds site and read how this has happened.
MY major point is that we have lied and been lied to ...our people (GATT NAFTA), lied to our friends..NATO, lied to Russia, lied to ourselves, lied about everything in order to make money. We are now hollowed out with no moral conviction..no feeling that this is OUR country...it has been taken over using our tax dollars to do it. It would be one thing if the people in the US felt that they have benefitted from all this but we have been taken advantage of with the rest of the banana republics..The BIGBOYS -insurance, big Pharma, BIG Agriculture, BIG BIG money changers- Goldman, JPMorgan, BlackRock, BOA, Wells Fargo...have fleeced us all and their noose is tighening everyday using BIG TECH, HiTech, We just had a color revolution in our own country and we are now at the mercey of a dimwit and a VP both totally controlable by the crooks on top...who over the past months after the election have left their own people with broken promises.
Watch what happens with NATO and our pushing them into WW3 against Russia...the Neocons need to be gone. These people are a blight on our country. and the world. So...who are we voting for.?? and who are we fighting for??

Just wanted to say welcome to the board.

 

[AgEngDawg]

 

[AgEngDawg]

 

[BigBucnNole]

Shit could legitimately be about to go down. 100k Russian troops on Ukrainian border. BUT... I also heard that was how many troops Russia kept in that particular Military District. So that may be sensationalized.

I do think if Putin is going to do it, they need to do it now. I don’t think China is going to do anything about Taiwan just yet beyond violate naval and airspace. When transports start lining up and several million Chinese soldiers are herded to the coast, then that spot could flare up. That’s not happening as far as I can tell.

Wonder if that Armenian war has any effect on this. Drones basically mopped the floor and if Russia can replicate it, war could be fairly quick and bloodless.

 

[America 1st]

Shit could legitimately be about to go down. 100k Russian troops on Ukrainian border. BUT... I also heard that was how many troops Russia kept in that particular Military District. So that may be sensationalized.

I do think if Putin is going to do it, they need to do it now. I don’t think China is going to do anything about Taiwan just yet beyond violate naval and airspace. When transports start lining up and several million Chinese soldiers are herded to the coast, then that spot could flare up. That’s not happening as far as I can tell.

Wonder if that Armenian war has any effect on this. Drones basically mopped the floor and if Russia can replicate it, war could be fairly quick and bloodless.

Russia doesn't want open conflict anymore than China does.

Both countries economies run in european spending to a large degree.

They want to Bully Puddin like them did Barry and hope he just backs off increasingly.

 

[BigBucnNole]

Russia doesn't want open conflict anymore than China does.

Both countries economies run in european spending to a large degree.

They want to Bully Puddin like them did Barry and hope he just backs off increasingly.

They want Ukraine more than they don’t want to fight the Euros. They could take it now while we are waning and the Euros are weak.

 

[America 1st]

They want Ukraine more than they don’t want to fight the Euros. They could take it now while we are waning and the Euros are weak.

Debatable.

They have the important parts of Ukraine in regards to their economic expansion vision.

If they act like they will escalate they are hoping Puddin will allow them to stay to maintain the no war status quo.

Also Euro is only going to get more weak and soft. Drawing this out is to their advantage IYAM.

 

[hmt5000]

Debatable.

They have the important parts of Ukraine in regards to their economic expansion vision.

If they act like they will escalate they are hoping Puddin will allow them to stay to maintain the no war status quo.

Also Euro is only going to get more weak and soft. Drawing this out is to their advantage IYAM.

There are still a bunch of people in Ukraine that want to be part of Russia. Ukraine is horribly corrupt and one thing Russia controlled was the corruption. As bad as Russia was to Ukraine.... Ukrainians are somehow worse.

 

[America 1st]

There are still a bunch of people in Ukraine that want to be part of Russia. Ukraine is horribly corrupt and one thing Russia controlled was the corruption. As bad as Russia was to Ukraine.... Ukrainians are somehow worse.

 

[BigBucnNole]

There are still a bunch of people in Ukraine that want to be part of Russia. Ukraine is horribly corrupt and one thing Russia controlled was the corruption. As bad as Russia was to Ukraine.... Ukrainians are somehow worse.

And the reminiscing of the old soviet empire.

If Russia is going to strike, they should strike now. On one hand the Europeans are probably at their lowest state of readiness in the last 200 years. That will change as we become more focused domestically and aren't as willing to foot the bill. Then you factor in China. After this Taiwan shit is settled, they want Siberia next. The Chinese are an expansionist power and it will take something like the old soviet union to go head to head with it. Russia gets Ukraine back, they absorb Belarus, they'll be resource wise able to fight the Chinese off. They almost have to do this for their own security.

 

[Jtrain80]

There are still a bunch of people in Ukraine that want to be part of Russia. Ukraine is horribly corrupt and one thing Russia controlled was the corruption. As bad as Russia was to Ukraine.... Ukrainians are somehow worse.

When Ukraine started hitting the news 2014/15?, I called a buddy from there to get his perspective.

He said the people are stupid and lazy(just want free shit), and the gov is corrupt beyond belief. He was there when the USSR fell, but was too young to really tell much.

 

[hmt5000]

And the reminiscing of the old soviet empire.

If Russia is going to strike, they should strike now. On one hand the Europeans are probably at their lowest state of readiness in the last 200 years. That will change as we become more focused domestically and aren't as willing to foot the bill. Then you factor in China. After this Taiwan shit is settled, they want Siberia next. The Chinese are an expansionist power and it will take something like the old soviet union to go head to head with it. Russia gets Ukraine back, they absorb Belarus, they'll be resource wise able to fight the Chinese off. They almost have to do this for their own security.

Good point. People don't seem to Realize that China wants a big chunk of Russia and Russia knows it. They aren't natural allies they just kinda cooperated because they WERE both commies. Now that Putin is basically a dictator and Xie is the same...

 

[America 1st]

Good point. People don't seem to Realize that China wants a big chunk of Russia and Russia knows it. They aren't natural allies they just kinda cooperated because they WERE both commies. Now that Putin is basically a dictator and Xie is the same...

This.

+

They hardly even cooperate. They have the same allies in Middle East but for vastly different reasons. That's about the extent of it.

This is actually becoming a point of contention as well for Russia because China is trying to peddle military goods which used to be Russia's thing. With the Russian economy being so weak they can't afford to lose a major economic bloc like that to a country they are trying to defend against.

 

[BigBucnNole]

This.

+

They hardly even cooperate. They have the same allies in Middle East but for vastly different reasons. That's about the extent of it.

This is actually becoming a point of contention as well for Russia because China is trying to peddle military goods which used to be Russia's thing. With the Russian economy being so weak they can't afford to lose a major economic bloc like that to a country they are trying to defend against.

I don't know why people care about economies when you factor in sheer amounts of resources and population. The USSR pre Barbarossa economy is a shadow of what it is today. Germany, for example, had about a 40% larger GDP at the time and we all know how that ended. Cash doesn't mean shit when push comes to shove, what matters is the government and their willingness to put a gun to their populations' head. When you compare the level of output a major developed economy in 2021 capability compared to WW2, there is virtually no ending to the amount of war material a nation could produce today.

For example Ford alone produced 5.5 million cars in 2019. Russia made 1.2 million total cars that same year, and China 2.8 million. The US produced 68k tanks through the entirety of WW2. Now granted shit is much more complex these days and it's harder to retool a car factory for MBT production, but... you can quickly get to something middling between modern equipment and WW2 and produce it to the tune of hundreds of thousands if we put our mind to it.

The problem we have today is that our crap is over engineered and is a pseudo jobs program, we only have one factory producing Abrams tanks and they don't really even want to do it. The F35 is assembled in something like 48 states for each plane. None of that shit matters because all the good stuff is blown to hell in the opening salvos of a modern war. We are at WW1 levels for how much cheaper it is to defend territory versus attack it. Because of that, it's the monkey models that matter and everyone is capable of producing. When it comes to modern day Russia, they are probably second to none and more than capable of swarming the Chinese. Their entire cold war doctrine was built on the concept.

 

[America 1st]

I don't know why people care about economies when you factor in sheer amounts of resources and population. The USSR pre Barbarossa economy is a shadow of what it is today. Germany, for example, had about a 40% larger GDP at the time and we all know how that ended. Cash doesn't mean shit when push comes to shove, what matters is the government and their willingness to put a gun to their populations' head. When you compare the level of output a major developed economy in 2021 capability compared to WW2, there is virtually no ending to the amount of war material a nation could produce today.

For example Ford alone produced 5.5 million cars in 2019. Russia made 1.2 million total cars that same year, and China 2.8 million. The US produced 68k tanks through the entirety of WW2. Now granted shit is much more complex these days and it's harder to retool a car factory for MBT production, but... you can quickly get to something middling between modern equipment and WW2 and produce it to the tune of hundreds of thousands if we put our mind to it.

The problem we have today is that our crap is over engineered and is a pseudo jobs program, we only have one factory producing Abrams tanks and they don't really even want to do it. The F35 is assembled in something like 48 states for each plane. None of that shit matters because all the good stuff is blown to hell in the opening salvos of a modern war. We are at WW1 levels for how much cheaper it is to defend territory versus attack it. Because of that, it's the monkey models that matter and everyone is capable of producing. When it comes to modern day Russia, they are probably second to none and more than capable of swarming the Chinese. Their entire cold war doctrine was built on the concept.

Because economies keep people happy.

Russia isn't swarming the Chinese. The have no reason to; China keeps the US distracted.

The Soviet Union falling is why the above model doesn't work in the real world as just one example.

Population and production capacity aren't the most important factors or China would've told the US to kick rocks already as another example.