Weapons Truth thread...let's get real about what's going on...

[Cre8ive]

 

[TJHall1]

If you want to have a genuine conversation about it I've got a question.

Why, in order to get my driver's license, do I have to take a class, take tests in that class, do assisted driving hours with a teacher, and then when I turn 16 go to the courthouse and take another test and another driving test along with a vision test in order to get a driver's license.
But, when I turn 18 I can buy AR rifles with drum magazines and unlimited ammo. No course, no licensure, just as long as I'm no felon. Why is that? Because the constitution?

 

[dirtytoeddawg]

If you want to have a genuine conversation about it I've got a question.

Why, in order to get my driver's license, do I have to take a class, take tests in that class, do assisted driving hours with a teacher, and then when I turn 16 go to the courthouse and take another test and another driving test along with a vision test in order to get a driver's license.
But, when I turn 18 I can buy AR rifles with drum magazines and unlimited ammo. No course, no licensure, just as long as I'm no felon. Why is that? Because the constitution?

Yes

Next question

 

[TJHall1]

Yes

Next question

You ok with the amount of mass murders happening at schools, stores, hospitals, churches, etc?

 

[RollyInRaleigh]

You ok with the amount of mass murders happening at schools, stores, hospitals, churches, etc?

So what would you propose to stop criminals from acquiring weapons and ammo that doesn’t infringe on my second amendment rights? Responsible people who follow laws are not the problem in all this and they should not be punished and put at a disadvantage for the actions of those who will not follow the laws.

A good start would be closing the open border that allows anyone and anything into this country with ease. Proposing gun laws on law abiding citizens does nothing to address the problem. Criminals find a way to get what they need...

 

[TJHall1]

So what would you propose to stop criminals from acquiring weapons and ammo that doesn’t infringe on my second amendment rights? Responsible people who follow laws are not the problem in all this and they should not be punished and put at a disadvantage for the actions of those who will not follow the laws.

A good start would be closing the open border that allows anyone and anything into this country with ease. Proposing gun laws on law abiding citizens does nothing to address the problem. Criminals find a way to get what they need...

I agree with the closing the borders.

Statistics completely disagree with you in regards to gun laws. Red flag laws work. There's a reason the NRA is so opposed to them.
Requiring courses and licensures would cull some of these psychos.
Being put thru hours and hours of course work, tests, and other stuff to acquire a driving license but being able to purchase rifles with drum magazines on my 18th birthday with nothing but a background check to see if I'm a felon is absurd.

And just to show how absurd your comment about gun laws is you should look up some stats about when they banned assault rifles under clinton.

 

[Taggart]

You ok with the amount of mass murders happening at schools, stores, hospitals, churches, etc?

Nobody is, but that's the moral breakdown of our society IMO... not sure that can be fixed. That doesn't give tyrants in DC the license to take away our ability to protect ourselves against said criminals and tyrants.

 

[TJHall1]

Nobody is, but that's the moral breakdown of our society IMO... not sure that can be fixed. That doesn't give tyrants in DC the license to take away our ability to protect ourselves against said criminals and tyrants.

Most sane people aren't talking about taking away your ability to protect yourself. I haven't mentioned anything even close to that. That is an extreme liberal solution.
Sane people are talking about better regulations, licensing, courses, etc and not letting the NRA dictate things like red flag laws. This is not too much to ask for and in no way takes away from a law abiding citizen's ability to defend themselves.

 

[Rusty Student]

Gee...I bet red flag laws wouldn't be abused.

 

[TJHall1]

Gee...I bet red flag laws wouldn't be abused.

Tons of laws are abused, should we just not have any??

 

[LVRebel]

I agree with the closing the borders.

Statistics completely disagree with you in regards to gun laws. Red flag laws work. There's a reason the NRA is so opposed to them.
Requiring courses and licensures would cull some of these psychos.
Being put thru hours and hours of course work, tests, and other stuff to acquire a driving license but being able to purchase rifles with drum magazines on my 18th birthday with nothing but a background check to see if I'm a felon is absurd.

And just to show how absurd your comment about gun laws is you should look up some stats about when they banned assault rifles under clinton.

In this scenario (requiring courses), even if you limited purchases at stores, there are already so many guns in the community that there's no way you could keep someone from getting one if they wanted to. Criminals and shady people aren't going to give them up, right?

To answer your other question about driving, it's a much more complicated process and the number of annual deaths are much higher than with rifles. In the USA, from what I can find, there are around 40,000 deaths per year from driving accidents.

For guns, in 2020, there were just over 45,000 gun related deaths (up significantly from 2019), but only around 400 involved rifles including AR-15's. Over 50% of the deaths were suicide while around 19,000 were murders. So to ban all AR's for the entire country seems a little excessive to make up for the 400 annual deaths. I'm not minimizing any death, as they're all a tragedy. However, as others have said, the real issue is mental health, and unfortunately, our country is going way off the reservation on this one.

IMO, it doesn't matter if it's a handgun or a rifle doing the shooting. Yes, it would be easier to hit more targets with large capacity magazines and automatic weapons, but a person that is planning to do this sort of thing has serious mental issues, and if guns aren't available, they'll find other means to do it.

Look at the driver that killed all of those people in the parade earlier this year.
Look at the Boston Marathon bomber.
Plenty of other psycho's that used to kidnap and do terrible things to people.

Unfortunately, our leaders/politicians don't want to talk about real solutions.

 

[RollyInRaleigh]

I agree with the closing the borders.

Statistics completely disagree with you in regards to gun laws. Red flag laws work. There's a reason the NRA is so opposed to them.
Requiring courses and licensures would cull some of these psychos.
Being put thru hours and hours of course work, tests, and other stuff to acquire a driving license but being able to purchase rifles with drum magazines on my 18th birthday with nothing but a background check to see if I'm a felon is absurd.

And just to show how absurd your comment about gun laws is you should look up some stats about when they banned assault rifles under clinton.

What’s absurd is that you can get a gun, drum magazines off the street with none of the requirements you mentioned...and age has nothing to do with being criminally crazy.

 

[TJHall1]

In this scenario (requiring courses), even if you limited purchases at stores, there are already so many guns in the community that there's no way you could keep someone from getting one if they wanted to. Criminals and shady people aren't going to give them up, right?

To answer your other question about driving, it's a much more complicated process and the number of annual deaths are much higher than with rifles. In the USA, from what I can find, there are around 40,000 deaths per year from driving accidents.

For guns, in 2020, there were just over 45,000 gun related deaths (up significantly from 2019), but only around 400 involved rifles including AR-15's. Over 50% of the deaths were suicide while around 19,000 were murders. So to ban all AR's for the entire country seems a little excessive to make up for the 400 annual deaths. I'm not minimizing any death, as they're all a tragedy. However, as others have said, the real issue is mental health, and unfortunately, our country is going way off the reservation on this one.

IMO, it doesn't matter if it's a handgun or a rifle doing the shooting. Yes, it would be easier to hit more targets with large capacity magazines and automatic weapons, but a person that is planning to do this sort of thing has serious mental issues, and if guns aren't available, they'll find other means to do it.

Look at the driver that killed all of those people in the parade earlier this year.
Look at the Boston Marathon bomber.
Plenty of other psycho's that used to kidnap and do terrible things to people.

Unfortunately, our leaders/politicians don't want to talk about real solutions.

All valid points.
But I disagree with a lot of it. If you don't think regulations would prevent some of these people from getting guns you're ignorant. I could go buy a rifle at a store right now, but if I were to try to get one off the street I wouldn't even know where to start. The large majority of people don't have access to black market firearms or can just cross the border for guns. This is just a lazy excuse for not implementing anything.

As far as your statistics go with which firearms kill how many, 59% was handguns, but 36% were reported as no specific gun type for various reasons. Who knows how many of those involved what.

Something needs to be done. Saying regulations and bans won't work is just lazy. Statistics directly show otherwise.

 

[RollyInRaleigh]

Tons of laws are abused, should we just not have any??

Truth is, laws matter not to those who don’t follow them...and it’s not the majority of people. Hell, we have all kinds of laws that seemingly don’t pertain to politicians, bureaucrats, and those with money and connections...

 

[TJHall1]

What’s absurd is that you can get a gun, drum magazines off the street with none of the requirements you mentioned...and age has nothing to do with being criminally crazy.

And it's much, much, much harder to obtain those guns and ammo off the street. THAT'S THE POINT.

 

[TJHall1]

Truth is, laws matter not to those who don’t follow them...and it’s not the majority of people. Hell, we have all kinds of laws that seemingly don’t pertain to politicians, bureaucrats, and those with money and connections...

Laws help tho. No one claims they're 100% effective but if you're arguing they don't help at all then you're an idiot.

 

[Cre8ive]

If you want to have a genuine conversation about it I've got a question.

Why, in order to get my driver's license, do I have to take a class, take tests in that class, do assisted driving hours with a teacher, and then when I turn 16 go to the courthouse and take another test and another driving test along with a vision test in order to get a driver's license.
But, when I turn 18 I can buy AR rifles with drum magazines and unlimited ammo. No course, no licensure, just as long as I'm no felon. Why is that? Because the constitution?

Assault rifles should be as hard to get as "Stoneman Syndrome"

 

[TJHall1]

Assault rifles should be as hard to get "Stoneman Syndrome"

I had to Google that.

 

[LVRebel]

All valid points.
But I disagree with a lot of it. If you don't think regulations would prevent some of these people from getting guns you're ignorant. I could go buy a rifle at a store right now, but if I were to try to get one off the street I wouldn't even know where to start. The large majority of people don't have access to black market firearms or can just cross the border for guns. This is just a lazy excuse for not implementing anything.

As far as your statistics go with which firearms kill how many, 59% was handguns, but 36% were reported as no specific gun type for various reasons. Who knows how many of those involved what.

Something needs to be done. Saying regulations and bans won't work is just lazy. Statistics directly show otherwise.

I wasn't saying that regulations won't help. I think it could help to reduce some of the shootings, but how much? I personally don't have a problem with having to go through some extra steps to get guns, but I know a lot of people do. With that though is a lot of hesitancy. Who determines what person is able to get one and who isn't? What if involvement in message boards like this one put you on a list and you couldn't get one? How about Trump supporters? Or Biden supporters? What's the criteria? If you have a criminal history, I believe you're already excluded from purchasing from a store, right? So who else would they be able to catch?

 

[TJHall1]

I wasn't saying that regulations won't help. I think it could help to reduce some of the shootings, but how much? I personally don't have a problem with having to go through some extra steps to get guns, but I know a lot of people do. With that though is a lot of hesitancy. Who determines what person is able to get one and who isn't? What if involvement in message boards like this one put you on a list and you couldn't get one? How about Trump supporters? Or Biden supporters? What's the criteria? If you have a criminal history, I believe you're already excluded from purchasing from a store, right? So who else would they be able to catch?

You're excluded if you're a felon. That's about the only law right now, which is ridiculous.
Obviously there would have to be set guidelines. There are questions just like you asked for a lot of laws. Just because there are questions doesn't mean that should stop things from happening.

 

[LVRebel]

You're excluded if you're a felon. That's about the only law right now, which is ridiculous.
Obviously there would have to be set guidelines. There are questions just like you asked for a lot of laws. Just because there are questions doesn't mean that should stop things from happening.

Like what other laws are you referring to? I can't think of any other laws besides a drivers license where you have to get a background check and training to make a purchase. Plus, just like taxes, once they start, they'll just keep adding to the list. Next, no hand guns, no knives, no bow & arrow, etc. After all, why would anyone need those things when they can just buy meat from the store?

 

[TJHall1]

Like what other laws are you referring to? I can't think of any other laws besides a drivers license where you have to get a background check and training to make a purchase. Plus, just like taxes, once they start, they'll just keep adding to the list. Next, no hand guns, no knives, no bow & arrow, etc. After all, why would anyone need those things when they can just buy meat from the store?

When they banned assault rifles almost 30 years ago why didn't they continue to ban everything else like you just said? This argument is almost as bad as liberals saying if gay marriage is banned the next thing that will be illegal is 2 gay people having sex in their own home. It's ridiculous.

I'm not for banning anything, but red flag laws have worked. Statistics show it. Conservatives acting like it'll be the end of the world is nuts.
People who have been hospitalized for being mentally unstable shouldn't be able to go buy assault rifles. You don't let people who suffer from seizures get driver's licenses. Why should a mentally unstable person get guns?

 

[TJHall1]

There was a shooting at a church in Ames, Iowa yesterday in which a man shot two women as they approached the church and then offed himself. One was an ex girlfriend of his.

2 days before this happened this man was arrested for harassment of his ex along with impersonating an official. This, right here, should raise some flags. Obviously this man had some problems at the time.

After his arrest, 2 days later, he went and bought a 9mm handgun and ammo. 1 hour after the purchase he went and killed those 2 women and himself.

Red flagging him, even temporarily, would have prevented his purchase of that gun at a store.

Does that 100% prevent him from eventually killing these girls? No, but it sure as shit puts some obstacles in his way. Maybe he calms down or gets some help in the meantime and this doesn't happen. Some of these things are preventable, and people saying otherwise are stuck in the mud.

ETA this little gem. People like this shouldn't be allowed to purchase firearms:

Court records show the suspect had several domestic cases where he was accused of violent or inappropriate actions toward women, including one incident that led to criminal charges.

 

[CurtOFD78]

I've been trying to figure out what in the hell is causing all of these crazy mass shootings lately. Obviously, mental health plays a role. IIRC, 2 of the 3 shooters (Buffalo and Texas) were around 18 or so. I'm a little torn on the idea of 1) letting our 18 y/o young men use these weapons in the military and then turn around and 2) saying they cannot have them in their civilian life. That makes no sense. I don't know if raising the age of rifle ownership is the answer. I would tend to say it isn't. Maybe we as a society need to be paying more attention to what our young men are reading, doing, and who they are hanging out with. Clearly, the Dylan Roof and Salvador Ramos of the world are/were disturbed and needed to be watched closely, but there's no way to watch them 24 hours until they commit a crime and go to jail.

I'm 100% pro 2A and own a few firearms. I'm not completely down with Constitutional carry here in Florida for the reason that every Tom Dick and Harry could be carrying a gun with little to no training or understanding of how to safely use their weapon. For those of us who practice and are responsible, hell yeah carry that thing concealed or open if you can. I just think there are too many irresponsible idiots in the world (and I think many of them have moved to central Florida recently from the northeast) to be letting them carry a weapon with little/no training. I know that I've been carrying my concealed pistol for years and won't leave the house without it anymore. Central FLA will have another mass shooting sometime. It's not a matter of if, and I'm no good to my family if I'm dead.

 

[Rusty Student]

Tons of laws are abused, should we just not have any??

Certainly not ones that violate the constitution

 

[Rusty Student]

Laws help tho. No one claims they're 100% effective but if you're arguing they don't help at all then you're an idiot.

How are those strict gun laws working out in Chicago?

 

[TJHall1]

Certainly not ones that violate the constitution

No one who isn't a lib faggot is suggesting laws violating the constitution.

 

[TJHall1]

How are those strict gun laws working out in Chicago?

Preventing more deaths than if they weren't there at all. And I'm sure it has nothing to do with city attorneys refusing to jail criminals, instead letting gang bangers back on the street for weapons charges.

Don't act like Chicago's situation has nothing to do with their mayors and attorneys refusing to jail anyone or enforce the laws in place.

 

[RollyInRaleigh]

The slow grab...its a pattern with the left and make no mistake, it’s coming. I’ll fight them every step of the way.

 

[TJHall1]

The slow grab...its a pattern with the left and make no mistake, it’s coming. I’ll fight them every step of the way.

What patterns do you speak of? No one is going to clean you out of your guns. That's loony talk from far leftists and if you believe it will happen you're fuckin crazy.

 

[ETNVol]

If you want to have a genuine conversation about it I've got a question.

Why, in order to get my driver's license, do I have to take a class, take tests in that class, do assisted driving hours with a teacher, and then when I turn 16 go to the courthouse and take another test and another driving test along with a vision test in order to get a driver's license.
But, when I turn 18 I can buy AR rifles with drum magazines and unlimited ammo. No course, no licensure, just as long as I'm no felon. Why is that? Because the constitution?

Yes. Sorry if that offends you, but yes. You have no constitutional right to a drivers license.

If you want to make some new laws concerning firearms, pass a constitutional amendment that will permit them.

 

[RollyInRaleigh]

What patterns do you speak of? No one is going to clean you out of your guns. That's loony talk from far leftists and if you believe it will happen you're fuckin crazy.

...and you think they won’t try? Right...

 

[TJHall1]

...and you think they won’t try? Right...

The crazy ones? Sure, they will. Won't ever happen. I mean, theyre trying right now. They've tried in the past. It's the extremists and a very small minority.

 

[TJHall1]

Yes. Sorry if that offends you, but yes. You have no constitutional right to a drivers license.

If you want to make some new laws concerning firearms, pass a constitutional amendment that will permit them.

Sure you have a right. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be checks on that right. This is pretty simple to understand.

Are you in favor of allowing someone who threatens to shoot up a school to go and purchase a firearm the next day?

I mean, it is their right isn't it??? @ETNVol

 

[hmt5000]

If you want to have a genuine conversation about it I've got a question.

Why, in order to get my driver's license, do I have to take a class, take tests in that class, do assisted driving hours with a teacher, and then when I turn 16 go to the courthouse and take another test and another driving test along with a vision test in order to get a driver's license.
But, when I turn 18 I can buy AR rifles with drum magazines and unlimited ammo. No course, no licensure, just as long as I'm no felon. Why is that? Because the constitution?

Because you are driving on a public highway with other drivers. You can own a car and not get licensed. You can even drive that car on your property or on your friends property and you don't need a license. If you take your argument further then can we argue that some of our speech needs to be licensed? I'm sure some people on here would like to make you jump through some hoops. Maybe make you open up some personal info and spend wild amounts of money.... for a right....

Do you see the problem with that?

 

[hmt5000]

I agree with the closing the borders.

Statistics completely disagree with you in regards to gun laws. Red flag laws work. There's a reason the NRA is so opposed to them.
Requiring courses and licensures would cull some of these psychos.
Being put thru hours and hours of course work, tests, and other stuff to acquire a driving license but being able to purchase rifles with drum magazines on my 18th birthday with nothing but a background check to see if I'm a felon is absurd.

And just to show how absurd your comment about gun laws is you should look up some stats about when they banned assault rifles under clinton.

Are you gonna give any credit to the 100,000 cops and the increase in jail terms or are you gonna be a bitch that yells... MUH mandatory minimums? You realize they kept violent felons in jail longer and now they are letting them out faster. Why don't you move to seattle or NY and wear a sign that says "I carry large sums of money"?

 

[TJHall1]

Because you are driving on a public highway with other drivers. You can own a car and not get licensed. You can even drive that car on your property or on your friends property and you don't need a license. If you take your argument further then can we argue that some of our speech needs to be licensed? I'm sure some people on here would like to make you jump through some hoops. Maybe make you open up some personal info and spend wild amounts of money.... for a right....

Do you see the problem with that?

I'll ask you the same question: if some nut job who has threatened harm and been violent with people in the past goes and tries to buy a gun a few days later; should he have the right to buy that gun?

 

[TJHall1]

Are you gonna give any credit to the 100,000 cops and the increase in jail terms or are you gonna be a bitch that yells... MUH mandatory minimums? You realize they kept violent felons in jail longer and now they are letting them out faster. Why don't you move to seattle or NY and wear a sign that says "I carry large sums of money"?

I don't even know how to respond to this. There isnt a coherent thought in all of it. I feel your passion about the subject and alcohol prolly led to this message.

 

[hmt5000]

Tons of laws are abused, should we just not have any??

So because tons of laws are bad we should add more bad laws in hopes that one or two are decent? Jesus Christ what happened to you? You used to be decent poster and now your just a beta bitch. What is going on in your life now man? You are snapping at everyone over jokes and can't maintain a rational thought process.


Wake up call dude.

 

[hmt5000]

I'll ask you the same question: if some nut job who has threatened harm and been violent with people in the past goes and tries to buy a gun a few days later; should he have the right to buy that gun?

More proof... beta bitch transfer.