Joe King
Elite
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2023
- Messages
- 846
You have them due to the fact you are here, how ever it is that you believe that you got here.Evolution does not bestow rights, inalienable rights are given by God, not the big bang
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SignUp Now!You have them due to the fact you are here, how ever it is that you believe that you got here.Evolution does not bestow rights, inalienable rights are given by God, not the big bang
What makes you think Jefferson had to acknowledge God without offending one of the other denominations? They were living in the enlightened period, Jefferson recognized that inalienable/unalienable rights were natural rights in nature, that is why he used the word "endowed" and not bestowed like you use. I don't think you know the very documents you claim to be the scholar of, you've demonstrated your stupidity in every comment in not comprehending them or their purpose.I just explained it to you. Some people may prefer Jesus while others Yahweh while some dare not try to utter a name for the Creator. Jefferson had to acknowledge God without offending one of the other denominations. The objective was to make sure they understood that the purpose of separation from the rule of King George is rooted in a presupposition that mortal man cannot infringe on the God given unalienable Rights of man. He didn't need a religious argument on his hands... much like - wait for it.
Pfft!As for the balance of what weaponoffreedom posts, this guy is the epitome of chickenshit and stupidity... neither of which can be fixed.
bullshitYou have them due to the fact you are here, how ever it is that you believe that you got here.
It was the most important part of the statement that I disagreed with.Joe presented a very reasonable argument.
You're usually hyper-logical about everything.
So how come you've apparently snatched a couple of tiny bits from Joe's post and disregarded the rest like this?
Obviously you know not all Americans believe the same as yourself, such as "atheists", "jews", "hindus", etcetera and so forth.
In general, I agree with this statement, as it further reinforces my belief that America was NOT founded as a Christian nation.Because that way it can be defined however the reader, or those it applies to, want to personally define it.
It can mean created by evolution, or by God or anything in between that one personally chooses to believe. And by that very act of creation, they we you I are all endowed with certain Rights.
It's pretty basic and something all Americans (if not literally everyone in the World) should be able to mostly agree on.
You have the Right to your own opinion; you don't have the Right to be wrong in your facts. Let's just cut to the chase:It was the most important part of the statement that I disagreed with.
In general, I agree with this statement, as it further reinforces my belief that America was NOT founded as a Christian nation.
Your claims are not factual, nor are you the arbiter of what are or aren't facts. You may have your beliefs, but that is all they are, your beliefs. Problem is they go against academia and reality.You have the Right to your own opinion; you don't have the Right to be wrong in your facts. Let's just cut to the chase:
weaponoffreedom was formerly posting on resisters.freeforums.net He got into this same argument, but couldn't sustain it. He came here to get the support he needed to prop up a failing argument. Then he invited me here. Why? Since it was a one on one debate on resisters, there were no people taking sides. But, if weaponoffreedom can make his argument on a board where there are malcontents taking his side, he feels justified.
weaponoffreedom, like most people that deny our Christian heritage, have a problem with the truth and with facts. Being a Christian nation is NOT our form of government. Our form of government is a constitutional Republic. Our values and our form of American jurisprudence is predicated on moral absolutes found in the Bible. Using atheists, humanists and even socialists / communists does nothing to further weaponoffreedom's position. He ran from honest debate and discourse at resisters; he has to rely on people that, by their own words, are NOT Christian nor patriots in order to feel justified in his arguments.
I've had to put several people on ignore because they either lied, were into gaslighting, used strawman arguments and / or try to create the illusion that they have more support than they actually do. In every instance, those who have opposed what I say are so insecure in their positions they cannot and will not allow other posters to read the posts and make up their own minds. I don't have the time or inclination to deal with childish and juvenile antics that the people I put on ignore employ so I realize I'm missing some things on this thread. But, to anyone that reads all the posts here, most of what I had to say is already here. For others to create strawman arguments and or lie about things or gaslight me isn't worth reading to or responding to.
Was America founded on Christian principles? | RESISTERS FORUM
"America was founded on Christian principles" I have heard this from many people, but one thing I just dont get...........what proof is there that the US was founded on Christian princiresisters.freeforums.net
weaoponoffreedom, if fifty people are equally deluded as you are, that will not make them right. Ever since the masses worshipped the Golden Calf in the days of Moses, it has been established that the majority is almost never right. You ran away scared from resisters and you know what kind of company you're keeping here with regards to this issue.
You're free to think that, but that's what the DOI says. That by the fact you were created at all, you have certain inalienable Rights. No need to agree, or sign to accept them. They are yours from the moment you were alive.bullshit
It really wasn't. It's just that many teachings in the Bible are in harmony with America's Founding principles.It was the most important part of the statement that I disagreed with.
In general, I agree with this statement, as it further reinforces my belief that America was NOT founded as a Christian nation.
Very well.You have the Right to your own opinion; you don't have the Right to be wrong in your facts. Let's just cut to the chase:
weaponoffreedom was formerly posting on resisters.freeforums.net He got into this same argument, but couldn't sustain it. He came here to get the support he needed to prop up a failing argument. Then he invited me here. Why? Since it was a one on one debate on resisters, there were no people taking sides. But, if weaponoffreedom can make his argument on a board where there are malcontents taking his side, he feels justified.
weaponoffreedom, like most people that deny our Christian heritage, have a problem with the truth and with facts. Being a Christian nation is NOT our form of government. Our form of government is a constitutional Republic. Our values and our form of American jurisprudence is predicated on moral absolutes found in the Bible. Using atheists, humanists and even socialists / communists does nothing to further weaponoffreedom's position. He ran from honest debate and discourse at resisters; he has to rely on people that, by their own words, are NOT Christian nor patriots in order to feel justified in his arguments.
I've had to put several people on ignore because they either lied, were into gaslighting, used strawman arguments and / or try to create the illusion that they have more support than they actually do. In every instance, those who have opposed what I say are so insecure in their positions they cannot and will not allow other posters to read the posts and make up their own minds. I don't have the time or inclination to deal with childish and juvenile antics that the people I put on ignore employ so I realize I'm missing some things on this thread. But, to anyone that reads all the posts here, most of what I had to say is already here. For others to create strawman arguments and or lie about things or gaslight me isn't worth reading to or responding to.
Gotta admit. I'm amazed at the magnitude of imbecility on display.weaoponoffreedom, if fifty people are equally deluded as you are, that will not make them right. Ever since the masses worshipped the Golden Calf in the days of Moses, it has been established that the majority is almost never right. You ran away scared from resisters and you know what kind of company you're keeping here with regards to this issue.
Where in the DOI?You're free to think that, but that's what the DOI says. That by the fact you were created at all, you have certain inalienable Rights. No need to agree, or sign to accept them. They are yours from the moment you were alive.
".....all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"Where in the DOI?
Agree with most; however, the courts have ruled. Unalienable Rights are those given by a Creator. It doesn't matter who chooses to believe or disbelieve; our system of jurisprudence begins with the presupposition that a Creator granted us Rights that are above the reach of government.You're free to think that, but that's what the DOI says. That by the fact you were created at all, you have certain inalienable Rights. No need to agree, or sign to accept them. They are yours from the moment you were alive.
Unalienable and inalienable mean the same damn thing. There are 7 copies of the DoI, 3 use inalienable while 4 use unalienable. The Lincoln Memorial uses inalienable.Agree with most; however, the courts have ruled. Unalienable Rights are those given by a Creator. It doesn't matter who chooses to believe or disbelieve; our system of jurisprudence begins with the presupposition that a Creator granted us Rights that are above the reach of government.
Inalienable rights are those rights granted by government.
SMFH watadumassWhile no single case may comprehensively define "in/unalienable rights," these cases collectively contribute to the understanding and legal interpretation of rights that are considered inherent, fundamental, and not subject to government infringement.
Ok, why is the word "Creator" used instead of God......if the USA was founded as a Christian nation?".....all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"
It's right there in the 2nd paragraph.
"Creator", as used in the DoI, means anything the individual wants it to mean to them personally.Ok, why is the word "Creator" used instead of God......if the USA was founded as a Christian nation?
The answer is simple. America was founded in freedom of religion, so that you could worship ANY way you saw fit. Not nessessarily the Christian God.
Of course free speech cannot survive in a society populated by modern scum. My problem with Alex Jones is that he fails to understand that the American people are worthless moronic scum.
So you agree it is not talking about the Christian God?"Creator", as used in the DoI, means anything the individual wants it to mean to them personally.
All it means is that by you finding yourself a living human being, you are recognized as automatically having those Rights.
So you agree it is not talking about the Christian God?
Nothing can be farther from the truth, great twist though.The more pressing issue is that Jefferson mentions a Creator. If that offends an atheist, it is because it presumes a Creator - a God. The same document mentions Divine Providence. Again, that is a reference to a God.
You seem to be bothered by God. Any specific reason that a Christian God is so offensive to you?
If you want it to be in your particular reading of it, then yes.So you agree it is not talking about the Christian God?
Man, I am amazed at how enlightened your perspectives are on this.If you want it to be in your particular reading of it, then yes.
If not, then no.
It's up to YOU what it means to you.
Who or what, is YOUR Creator?
As far as natural Rights go, look at them like this. Those are the Rights you need in order to be a free man, and as such, you are supposed to naturally have them. They can't be taken away, only violated.
That was nonresponsive. You deny the truth. Let's find out if you are capable of understanding simple English.Nothing can be farther from the truth, great twist though.
Thank you, very much.Man, I am amazed at how enlightened your perspectives are on this.
Seriously, well done.
To be honest, I'm not really sure.One thing I'm still a little confused about, is just what exactly the specific disagreement is between your view and weapon's view(?)
Simplistic answer is noThat was nonresponsive. You deny the truth. Let's find out if you are capable of understanding simple English.
Do YOU believe in a Christian God? It's a simple yes or no.
That was nonresponsive. You deny the truth. Let's find out if you are capable of understanding simple English.
Do YOU believe in a Christian God? It's a simple yes or no.
You are missing the point. Let me ask you something:If you want it to be in your particular reading of it, then yes.
If not, then no.
It's up to YOU what it means to you.
Who or what, is YOUR Creator?
As far as natural Rights go, look at them like this. Those are the Rights you need in order to be a free man, and as such, you are supposed to naturally have them. They can't be taken away, only violated.
HAHAHA, but yes unequivocally I do believe in the Christian God, the one true God........is that so hard? Just like when I asked your dumbass, and it took you 15 messages to half way say yes........go fuck yourself.
No one is having to accept other Creators. What any person thinks their "Creator" is, is up to them. All it means is that by the fact you are here, you have certain Rights as a free human being.You are missing the point. Let me ask you something:
Where in Christianity does it teach to accept other "creators"?
Its like this guy has the self awareness of a cactus.I used to expect more from you, but I'm not interested in a dick measuring contest with a eunuch. So get off your high horse. You can't live vicariously through him.
Yo @weaponoffreedom, see this particularly shitbrained statement by 'TheResister'.You are opposed to me yet we both identify as Christian.
*Belief: "a feeling sure that someone or something exists or is true or trustworthy. a belief in Santa Claus. a belief in democracy. 2. : something that one thinks is true."Far too many religions have their own name for Christ / God and all claim to believe in the same Bible.
Divine Providence is understood by virtually every (if not every) Christian denomination and it means something different to all of them, but it still conveys the same biblical laws that Christians are subject to.
All you did was to prove the point. When the Declaration of Independence was ratified, it was this argument among 56 men. Jehovah Yahweh, Jesus, Yashua, etc., etc. You want to believe that 56 men, all professing faith in the Bible, were willing to pledge fealty to a non-God. You can't believe it either. A few humanists and atheists may slap you on the back, but you need the nastiness because you realize you have no credible argument.
Yeah recently he tried getting me into a corner, which I put him in before in an arguement.Its like this guy has the self awareness of a cactus.
Yo @weaponoffreedom, see this particularly shitbrained statement by 'TheResister'.
100% it is a tactical manipulation.
~"His transgressions – deception, lies, adultery, abuse of power – were quickly and easily erased because of a profession of faith."~
He could self-identify as "christian", "atheist", the king of England, as an Миль Ми-24, a MAGA supporter or whatever the fuck else.
TheResister could even self-identify as the very embodiment of truth.
And yet it is TheResister's very own Words & Actions which will always prove the actual True identity of his dishonorable-self.
What kind of "christian" shamelessly disregards #9.
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
*TheResister✓
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“You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.”
*Belief: "a feeling sure that someone or something exists or is true or trustworthy. a belief in Santa Claus. a belief in democracy. 2. : something that one thinks is true."
pfft! "...subject to." -my ass.
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I understand what you are saying, and that notion goes against Christianity. The creator is not who you want, it is who it is, you dont get the choose your "Grand Architect"No one is having to accept other Creators. What any person thinks their "Creator" is, is up to them. All it means is that by the fact you are here, you have certain Rights as a free human being.
No one is having to accept other Creators. What any person thinks their "Creator" is, is up to them. All it means is that by the fact you are here, you have certain Rights as a free human being.
Who is the "creator"? Yahweh? The Canaanite God of War? The Christian God of monotheism?I understand what you are saying, and that notion goes against Christianity. The creator is not who you want, it is who it is, you dont get the choose your "Grand Architect"
The only person being dishonest is you. You put people on ignore because they show your claims to be inept, and that chip on your shoulder doesn't allow you the humility of recognizing your own ignorance. Disagreeing with someone is one thing, what you do is not disagreement, you try to claim a position of authority over everybody that points out your stupidity, then you whine like a bitch. Claiming that others lack the balls to say stuff to your face only shows just how ignorant you truly are. Please let me know when you come to California. SMFHThis thread starts out with a topic about the end of the First Amendment and ends with a debate about religion.
Unfortunately, I had to put certain people on ignore since they were dishonest and one atheist was bloviating. Still you get the gist of what some of the posts are about. All of the name calling and back and forth accusations get hurled by those who cannot stand to see someone disagree with them.
I will (and HAVE) stood up for your Right to say whatever you like AND I will fight to the death for your Right to speak your mind. At the same time, even the great poseur, Donnie Trump, knows from where Liberty originates. It is not a humanistic or atheistic trait, but rather is found in the Bible itself:
"Now the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." II Corinthians 3: 17
It is obvious to me that if we left the non-believers in charge they would have anyone that disagrees with them convicted of challenging their presupposed omnipotence. Still, they remain spineless, gutless cowards that talk trash on the Internet because they lack the balls to say that stuff to the face of other human beings. And, on that note, I rest my case.
I see the use of "Creator\creator" as a "fill in the blank" word. They could be all that you listed, and that in lies the point.Who is the "creator"? Yahweh? The Canaanite God of War? The Christian God of monotheism?
Can "creator" simply be a secular philosophic word for the natural recognition of life? Is the "creator" simply an idea?
Every time he does that kinda crap, I can't help thinking of a feral chihuahua trying to dominate a rottweiler.Yeah recently he tried getting me into a corner, which I put him in before in an arguement.
I agree. Infact, based on his consistent behavioral patterns, that being definitively and demonstrably intentionally deceptive. Thus, my current opinion is: I am ~90+% certain he is proactively faking–not only his "christian" identity act–but also his whole pro-American-"christian" identity act too.He is no Christian, and very likely the opposite.
Guess this imbecile still hasn't grasped the simple fact that every single post here is publicly available for all to see.This thread starts out with a topic about the end of the First Amendment and ends with a debate about religion.
Unfortunately, I had to put certain people on ignore since they were dishonest and one atheist was bloviating. Still you get the gist of what some of the posts are about. All of the name calling and back and forth accusations get hurled by those who cannot stand to see someone disagree with them.
I will (and HAVE) stood up for your Right to say whatever you like AND I will fight to the death for your Right to speak your mind. At the same time, even the great poseur, Donnie Trump, knows from where Liberty originates. It is not a humanistic or atheistic trait, but rather is found in the Bible itself:
"Now the Lord is that Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." II Corinthians 3: 17
It is obvious to me that if we left the non-believers in charge they would have anyone that disagrees with them convicted of challenging their presupposed omnipotence. Still, they remain spineless, gutless cowards that talk trash on the Internet because they lack the balls to say that stuff to the face of other human beings. And, on that note, I rest my case.