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Quote from Benjamin Franklin

America 1st

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The irony is how inaccurately that quote is used.

Most people have no clue Ben was actually arguing for increased taxation and defense spending in the name of public security. The context and history of this quote is essentially the opposite of how people frame it today.


 

Spaceweazle

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He loved to party but there is no hard evidence he actually cheated on his wife. He also didn't really drink.

He did have a few kids to different women, but that was prior to marriage.
 

Renegadenole

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The irony is how inaccurately that quote is used.

Most people have no clue Ben was actually arguing for increased taxation and defense spending in the name of public security. The context and history of this quote is essentially the opposite of how people frame it today.


I don't see it as opposite. The fact is BF was making the proclamation that any liberty given up for safety is in error. It is the text itself. It doesn't matter what liberty and which safety.

NPR and the Brookings Institute can get as literal and scholarly as they like. The people know what the saying is meant to deliver in today's world and it's not just about cell phones as the liberals like to twist it to mean. People have been using the saying long before cell phones.
 

America 1st

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I don't see it as opposite. The fact is BF was making the proclamation that any liberty given up for safety is in error. It is the text itself. It doesn't matter what liberty and which safety.

NPR and the Brookings Institute can get as literal and scholarly as they like. The people know what the saying is meant to deliver in today's world and it's not just about cell phones as the liberals like to twist it to mean. People have been using the saying long before cell phones.
He was arguing that state legislatures have the right to tax people to expand the military for the security of the general population.

You can believe and interpret it to mean whatever you want but the Founders believed strongly in the government's responsibility to protect it's citizens (they were classical liberals after all).
 

Renegadenole

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He was arguing that state legislatures have the right to tax people to expand the military for the security of the general population.

You can believe and interpret it to mean whatever you want but the Founders believed strongly in the government's responsibility to protect it's citizens (they were classical liberals after all).
Yep, not debating that and it's known that the government has the right to tax citizens to fund the military but, it doesn't exclude the contemporary use of the quote. The point is still that a liberty should not be traded for security. Many historians (not all, never on anything) would agree that BF would approve the common use of the quote today (freedom is more important than security). BF put his life on the line for just such a thing. Most famous quotes take on a life of their own.
 

America 1st

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Yep, not debating that and it's known that the government has the right to tax citizens to fund the military but, it doesn't exclude the contemporary use of the quote. The point is still that a liberty should not be traded for security. Many historians (not all, never on anything) would agree that BF would approve the common use of the quote today (freedom is more important than security). BF put his life on the line for just such a thing. Most famous quotes take on a life of their own.
Agreed.
 

Zgdaf

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"Without freedom of thought, there can be no such thing as wisdom - and no such thing as public liberty without freedom of speech."- Benjamin Franklin
You will still be compelled to use one of the 18 pronouns the alphabet group decides upon, and off with your head if you pick the wrong one.
 

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