Derek Chauvin Trial/George Floyd/Minneapolis

Nas said:
I do. If you followed what their Chief said and the questioning regarding why they didn't roll him to his side, that's gonna be the sticking point.

I never thought he needed murder or manslaughter or any of that. He needed jail time for how he handled it.

I'm with you guys in that anyone that takes heroin or fetty is signing their own death sentence. The problem is cops are instructed to roll them over to prevent the breathing issues that come from an overdose. I don't agree with it and I literally hate doing all this extra shit to make an arrest. Its the rules we play by and we know them.
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My question, because I really do not know and I’m not doing a gotcha, is what are the 4 cops supposed to do in the event of a hostile crowd? What exactly is the protocol? Are they supposed to ignore the circumstances surrounding it regardless given protocol?

Seems from everything I’ve read coming from the prosecution side is that the protocol they are describing is in a vacuum.
 
BigBucnNole said:
My question, because I really do not know and I’m not doing a gotcha, is what are the 4 cops supposed to do in the event of a hostile crowd? What exactly is the protocol? Are they supposed to ignore the circumstances surrounding it regardless given protocol?

Seems from everything I’ve read coming from the prosecution side is that the protocol they are describing is in a vacuum.
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Most of being a cop is being able to articulate how you came to a decision and if a reasonable person would come to that conclusion. Whether its people just running their mouth or coming off the sidewalk against orders, you have options. Protocol? People talking shit from a place they are legally allowed to be is not considered hostile. Once they do step into the street, after being told not too you can charge them with misconduct at an emergency scene, ped in the roadway etc and snatch them up, or if they dont get back out of the street mace them/ shove them.

4×6 guy, we have dereliction of duty here. I have no idea what the elements for that crime are called in Minny.
 
God Cam It said:
Every witness for the prosecution has testified under oath that use of force is not pretty (that line is literally in the use of force manuals and they train on how to handle how use of force looks) and that also use of force was justified during the encounter.

Can you say that Chauvin is responsible Floyds' death beyond a reasonable doubt? No. Thank God for the innocent before proven guilty part you got going.

It will be a miscarriage of justice if his drug dealer isn't held responsible.
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Thanks, Dad.
 
Nas said:
Most of being a cop is being able to articulate how you came to a decision and if a reasonable person would come to that conclusion. Whether its people just running their mouth or coming off the sidewalk against orders, you have options. Protocol? People talking shit from a place they are legally allowed to be is not considered hostile. Once they do step into the street, after being told not too you can charge them with misconduct at an emergency scene, ped in the roadway etc and snatch them up, or if they dont get back out of the street mace them/ shove them.

4×6 guy, we have dereliction of duty here. I have no idea what the elements for that crime are called in Minny.
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If the EMT thought the crowd was hostile enough to be blocked from applying medical care, why can’t the cop say the same thing about choosing to keep Floyd pinned?
 
BigBucnNole said:
If the EMT thought the crowd was hostile enough to be blocked from applying medical care, why can’t the cop say the same thing about choosing to keep Floyd pinned?
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The off duty female EMT? She is an idiot who thought cops were just going to take her word that she was an EMT during that mess.

They could have kept him pinned. Just in a different position, like they were taught. You get the training with the agreement that you acknowledge that's the way its done or you fry if things go sideways.

There are hundreds of examples of stuff like this. Seatbelting prisoners in, and they continually unbuckle themselves and you have to stop to snap them back in. A reasonable person would think if that idiot unbuckles himself, an accident occurs and the arrestee is injured or killed- it's on him right? Nope. Goes on the officer.

I'm not saying I think he needs to go to jail for his actions because he was intentionally trying to harm Floyd. Im saying he knowingly did something he was told not to do, for this very reason and someone died. One little fuck up in this job gets the dominos rolling. In this case, people have been frothing at the mouth for years about the bull shit officers are racist etc. The fact that given the amount of time he had, his training and the knowledge of the current climate- he made a horrible decision.
 
Nas said:
The off duty female EMT? She is an idiot who thought cops were just going to take her word that she was an EMT during that mess.

They could have kept him pinned. Just in a different position, like they were taught. You get the training with the agreement that you acknowledge that's the way its done or you fry if things go sideways.

There are hundreds of examples of stuff like this. Seatbelting prisoners in, and they continually unbuckle themselves and you have to stop to snap them back in. A reasonable person would think if that idiot unbuckles himself, an accident occurs and the arrestee is injured or killed- it's on him right? Nope. Goes on the officer.

I'm not saying I think he needs to go to jail for his actions because he was intentionally trying to harm Floyd. Im saying he knowingly did something he was told not to do, for this very reason and someone died. One little fuck up in this job gets the dominos rolling. In this case, people have been frothing at the mouth for years about the bull shit officers are racist etc. The fact that given the amount of time he had, his training and the knowledge of the current climate- he made a horrible decision.
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I haven’t been following closely. Did it come out in trial he was taught another method to pin until emt arrived?
 
Does the defense now change tactics? The prosecution'switnesses basically are defense witnesses, does the defense skip their expert witnesses in case the prosecution is able to take advantage of them?
 
Nas said:
The off duty female EMT? She is an idiot who thought cops were just going to take her word that she was an EMT during that mess.

They could have kept him pinned. Just in a different position, like they were taught. You get the training with the agreement that you acknowledge that's the way its done or you fry if things go sideways.

There are hundreds of examples of stuff like this. Seatbelting prisoners in, and they continually unbuckle themselves and you have to stop to snap them back in. A reasonable person would think if that idiot unbuckles himself, an accident occurs and the arrestee is injured or killed- it's on him right? Nope. Goes on the officer.

I'm not saying I think he needs to go to jail for his actions because he was intentionally trying to harm Floyd. Im saying he knowingly did something he was told not to do, for this very reason and someone died. One little fuck up in this job gets the dominos rolling. In this case, people have been frothing at the mouth for years about the bull shit officers are racist etc. The fact that given the amount of time he had, his training and the knowledge of the current climate- he made a horrible decision.
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I had thought I read that the actual ambulance that arrived on scene was delayed and blocked by the mob surrounding Chauvin and the other cops. I may have misread, but I was essentially asking how can you change things up in the face of a hostile crowd.

I see where you are coming from too. If he fvcked up and got someone killed by accident that is one thing. Knowingly murdering someone is another.

Side note, has an actual motive or reason for Chauvin to have allegedly killed Floyd been presented?
 
Nas said:
The off duty female EMT? She is an idiot who thought cops were just going to take her word that she was an EMT during that mess.

They could have kept him pinned. Just in a different position, like they were taught. You get the training with the agreement that you acknowledge that's the way its done or you fry if things go sideways.

There are hundreds of examples of stuff like this. Seatbelting prisoners in, and they continually unbuckle themselves and you have to stop to snap them back in. A reasonable person would think if that idiot unbuckles himself, an accident occurs and the arrestee is injured or killed- it's on him right? Nope. Goes on the officer.

I'm not saying I think he needs to go to jail for his actions because he was intentionally trying to harm Floyd. Im saying he knowingly did something he was told not to do, for this very reason and someone died. One little fuck up in this job gets the dominos rolling. In this case, people have been frothing at the mouth for years about the bull shit officers are racist etc. The fact that given the amount of time he had, his training and the knowledge of the current climate- he made a horrible decision.
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Are you watching the trial though? One of the cops asked if they should move him to his side and Chauvin said that the crowd and the drugs made it risky and the ambulance was on the way. If anything it looks like the ambulance just took way longer than they thought it would. I think they thought 3 to 5 minutes and just never even thought about 9. the crowd getting worked up affected the decisions more than I originally thought.

He's gonna get something but damn the prosecution just isn't proving any of it.
 
BigBucnNole said:
I had thought I read that the actual ambulance that arrived on scene was delayed and blocked by the mob surrounding Chauvin and the other cops. I may have misread, but I was essentially asking how can you change things up in the face of a hostile crowd.

I see where you are coming from too. If he fvcked up and got someone killed by accident that is one thing. Knowingly murdering someone is another.

Side note, has an actual motive or reason for Chauvin to have allegedly killed Floyd been presented?
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The crowd didnt look that bad to be honest. The one Asian Officer just kind of stood there while they yelled at them. Unless there was something later showing the mob getting into the street.

Think one of the other officers on here said there is nothing saying you cant throw him in the car and get out of the area, meet the ambulance somewhere else.
 
Nas said:
The crowd didnt look that bad to be honest. The one Asian Officer just kind of stood there while they yelled at them. Unless there was something later showing the mob getting into the street.

Think one of the other officers on here said there is nothing saying you cant throw him in the car and get out of the area, meet the ambulance somewhere else.
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Hindsight is 20/20 & all, but they should have never taken him out of the back of the car imo. Should have taken him away when they had him in the back seat, and if needed met the ambulance somewhere. Just my 2 cents, and hindsight, like I said.
 
hmt5000 said:
Are you watching the trial though? One of the cops asked if they should move him to his side and Chauvin said that the crowd and the drugs made it risky and the ambulance was on the way. If anything it looks like the ambulance just took way longer than they thought it would. I think they thought 3 to 5 minutes and just never even thought about 9. the crowd getting worked up affected the decisions more than I originally thought.

He's gonna get something but damn the prosecution just isn't proving any of it.
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I have not been watching all of the trial. I'm sure the ambulance took longer to get there than expected, but that sort of proves my point further. Its not like once the ambulance got there everything would be solved. If he was some doped up monster, he was still going to be that when moving him into the medic.

If it was taking longer, you probably dont want to be doing the thing they told you not to do for that exact reason.
 
Nas said:
I have not been watching all of the trial. I'm sure the ambulance took longer to get there than expected, but that sort of proves my point further. Its not like once the ambulance got there everything would be solved. If he was some doped up monster, he was still going to be that when moving him into the medic.

If it was taking longer, you probably dont want to be doing the thing they told you not to do for that exact reason.
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The point is, that they are bringing up that particular pd's rules, and it sure does seem like he went by the book. Every time the prosecution makes a point the defense makes 2 to counter it. If you just look at the 9 minutes it looks horrible but if you look at everything it just look tragic. They just had a guy on talking about their use of force and they actually went under what they could of done the entire time. There were a few places that expert said chauvin could have tazed him.... and that was a prosecution witness.
 
hmt5000 said:
The point is, that they are bringing up that particular pd's rules, and it sure does seem like he went by the book. Every time the prosecution makes a point the defense makes 2 to counter it. If you just look at the 9 minutes it looks horrible but if you look at everything it just look tragic. They just had a guy on talking about their use of force and they actually went under what they could of done the entire time. There were a few places that expert said chauvin could have tazed him.... and that was a prosecution witness.
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The prosecution is getting destroyed. Did they ever show any of the video from after they walked Floyd across the street from the business? There was some sort of scuffle.

Just throwing this info out there on use of force for people that are interested - tazers are considered a lower level of force than punching or kicking. Just above tackling and use of chemicals.
 
Nas said:
The prosecution is getting destroyed. Did they ever show any of the video from after they walked Floyd across the street from the business? There was some sort of scuffle.

Just throwing this info out there on use of force for people that are interested - tazers are considered a lower level of force than punching or kicking. Just above tackling and use of chemicals.
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Prosecution showed the bad parts for Chauvin only. Very edited tape. Got to think when dude gets to present, he's going to show the whole 40ish minutes.

Unless you are fleeing from a cop with his taser and turn to fire it at him in ATL.... Then it is a deadly weapon.. jk. Tasers are less than lethal. More people have died from being tased than have died from the knee across the back of the neck though. Thats the kind of stuff the defense keeps pointing out and its just brutal to watch him destroy the prosecution case.

Again.. I thought he'd get a manslaughter type conviction but it's just not happening unless the jurors just say "fuck it, Its him or all of us".
 
Nas said:
The prosecution is getting destroyed. Did they ever show any of the video from after they walked Floyd across the street from the business? There was some sort of scuffle.

Just throwing this info out there on use of force for people that are interested - tazers are considered a lower level of force than punching or kicking. Just above tackling and use of chemicals.
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Imagine when everyone starts testifying GF died at the hospital an hour later. Defense witnesses being this week and I suspect it will be a murder show.

 
GarnetPild said:
Did I miss something in that video? I have not followed closely, but that seemed like 11 1/2 minutes of boring nonsense...did she lie to investigators?
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Just that its the prosecutions witness and the defense is able to shatter her original take. The area isn't high crime.... There are only like 3 or 4 violent crimes/week.... stuff like that is just brutal if any of these jurors are gonna be honest.
 
hmt5000 said:
Prosecution showed the bad parts for Chauvin only. Very edited tape. Got to think when dude gets to present, he's going to show the whole 40ish minutes.

Unless you are fleeing from a cop with his taser and turn to fire it at him in ATL.... Then it is a deadly weapon.. jk. Tasers are less than lethal. More people have died from being tased than have died from the knee across the back of the neck though. Thats the kind of stuff the defense keeps pointing out and its just brutal to watch him destroy the prosecution case.

Again.. I thought he'd get a manslaughter type conviction but it's just not happening unless the jurors just say "fuck it, Its him or all of us".
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Disgusting they are even having a trial.
ChicagoFats said:
Defense seems to be doing a good job (honestly they have a lot to work with, very weak prosecution)

I think Chauvin walks as he should.
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I hope he takes them to the cleaners afterwards. This is wrongful prosecution if there ever was a case of it.
 
hmt5000 said:
Just that its the prosecutions witness and the defense is able to shatter her original take. The area isn't high crime.... There are only like 3 or 4 violent crimes/week.... stuff like that is just brutal if any of these jurors are gonna be honest.
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Thanks. I have not been following closely.
 

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