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Biden coming after cryptos (@America 1st was right again)

JordanPetersHorn

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So they platforms are just going to withdraw from the US economy and all of a sudden be the first platform or companies in the history of the world to be unreachable by the US government?

Are you even reading what you're writing?

Let's make this simple:

Would Libra exist if Facebook were getting fined for operating it?

Would Robinhood transact Bitcoin if they were getting fined for doing so?

This process can be done 1000x different ways to anything operating inside the US. To simply say it can't happen is like false and you know it.

That's how I know I've won this debate from every angle. People are looking math, economics, and common sense in the face and saying 'na fam'. 🤣😂🤣
Two horrendous examples(both institutional companies and not the ones people use here or the ones we’re talking about) as per usual and a crazy extrapolation based on a single mechanism of just pure regulation and no further analysis or technical pathways.

“This can be done 1000x different ways” no it can’t you’re just saying that it can with no evidence and using the “regulation” cudgel to bridge the gaps in your technical knowledge.
 

America 1st

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Two horrendous examples(both institutional companies and not the ones people use here or the ones we’re talking about) as per usual and a crazy extrapolation based on a single mechanism of just pure regulation and no further analysis or technical pathways.

“This can be done 1000x different ways” no it can’t you’re just saying that it can with no evidence and using the “regulation” cudgel to bridge the gaps in your technical knowledge.
So we're back you denying reality again it seems.

You acting like any company that does business in US can't be sanctioned is pretty funny actually.

It's pretty apparent some ITT thought technical knowledge alone would make them dangerous 🤣
 

JordanPetersHorn

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So we're back you denying reality again it seems.

You acting like any company that does business in US can't be sanctioned is pretty funny actually.
Companies dont run the hubs. Your brain just refuses to learn that point and keeps defaulting to the simplistic “the government is all powerful” argument
 

America 1st

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Companies dont run the hubs. Your brain just refuses to learn that point and keeps defaulting to the simplistic “the government is all powerful” argument
Companies don't need to run the hubs. They do business which is enough. Same can be said for running any software.

You just refuse to openly accept reality because you're realizing you've been batting for the bad guys.
 

JordanPetersHorn

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Companies don't need to run the hubs. They do business which is enough. Same can be said for running any software.

You just refuse to openly accept reality because you're realizing you've been batting for the bad guys.
That’s such a ludicrous and idiotically broad statement that I don’t want to debate this with you anymore.

I’ll Read or post any evidence that backs you up as I’ve done in the past, but your “common sense” “no technology” understanding of the issue isn’t going to sway anyone because it’s low information and easy.
 

America 1st

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That’s such a ludicrous and idiotically broad statement that I don’t want to debate this with you anymore.

I’ll Read or post any evidence that backs you up as I’ve done in the past, but your “common sense” “no technology” understanding of the issue isn’t going to sway anyone because it’s low information and easy.
I'm shocked that greedy people aren't going to change their ways when being called out for their greed 🙄
 

Npklee

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So they platforms are just going to withdraw from the US economy and all of a sudden be the first platform or companies in the history of the world to be unreachable by the US government?

Are you even reading what you're writing?

Let's make this simple:

Would Libra exist if Facebook were getting fined for operating it?

Would Robinhood transact Bitcoin if they were getting fined for doing so?

This process can be done 1000x different ways to anything operating inside the US. To simply say it can't happen is like false and you know it.

That's how I know I've won this debate from every angle. People are looking math, economics, and common sense in the face and saying 'na fam'. 🤣😂🤣

I don’t even need an exchange or platform. @JordanPetersHorn could have something for sale for $100. I can send him say BUSD that tracks 1:1 to the dollar and he have that $100 in his wallet in 5 seconds for a $0.02 fee on my end. I can send directly from my ledger wallet to him. No exchange needed. Good luck shutting that down.
 

America 1st

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I don’t even need an exchange or platform. @JordanPetersHorn could have something for sale for $100. I can send him say BUSD that tracks 1:1 to the dollar and he have that $100 in his wallet in 5 seconds for a $0.02 fee on my end. I can send directly from my ledger wallet to him. No exchange needed. Good luck shutting that down.
The fee, in US dollars, proves your on the system and easily stopped.

Congrats on proving my point for me? 🤷‍♂️

Let's not act like anything on the grid can't be stopped.

It's not like the need to stop every transaction is necessary anyways. People will use what's easiest to transact and most secure. Regulations and limitations are all the more that's needed to get the desired outcome the banks and cabal want.
 
Last edited:

Npklee

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The fee, in US dollars, proves your on the system and easily stopped.

Congrats on proving my point for me? 🤷‍♂️

Let's not act like anything on the grid can't be stopped.

It's not like the need to stop every transaction is necessary anyways. People will use what's easiest to transact and most secure. Regulations and limitations are all the more that's needed to get the desired outcome the banks and cabal want.

lol bruh I don’t pay the fee in actual usd. I converted it so it was in terms you would understand.
 

America 1st

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lol bruh I don’t pay the fee in actual usd. I converted it so it was in terms you would understand.
Again, if you pay a fee of any sort it's on the grid let alone the medium used to make the transaction.

Mostly though it's funny to see you arguing openly to harm your own country and subvert We The People just so you can make some easy cash.

I couldn't imagine being so pore.
 

America 1st

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When you're right you're right. I do that quite a bit to the dismay of coiners.

 

Renegadenole

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Being right is habitual.

Everyone knows that governments are going to issue their own digital currencies.
Anyone who understands also knows it’s still a centralized fiat currency. Nothing changes.
Bitcoin strength is its decentralized, immutable, fungible, portable, inflation proof and immune to modern monetary policies.
The government continues to print money which is a tax on the people and they spend it on social engineering. Not sure how you can support that.
 

Renegadenole

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When you're right you're right. I do that quite a bit to the dismay of coiners.


Bitcoin can not be stopped. It doesn’t matter one bit if Turkey outlaws it. Bitcoin is decentralized and cannot be controlled. The fact that governments are concerned that they will lose a form of control and manipulation over their citizens should be something you applaud.
 

America 1st

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Bitcoin can not be stopped. It doesn’t matter one bit if Turkey outlaws it. Bitcoin is decentralized and cannot be controlled. The fact that governments are concerned that they will lose a form of control and manipulation over their citizens should be something you applaud.
It's a shame you don't understand that cryptos are just another form of manipulation and control over citizens.
 

America 1st

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Everyone knows that governments are going to issue their own digital currencies.
Anyone who understands also knows it’s still a centralized fiat currency. Nothing changes.
Bitcoin strength is its decentralized, immutable, fungible, portable, inflation proof and immune to modern monetary policies.
The government continues to print money which is a tax on the people and they spend it on social engineering. Not sure how you can support that.
You should learn what fiat means before you continue making a fool of yourself.

Cryptos are more "fiat" than the dollar.
 

Renegadenole

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You should learn what fiat means before you continue making a fool of yourself.

Cryptos are more "fiat" than the dollar.
How big of a Tool you are and how far you can stick your head in your ass has no limit. It should be amazing that someone could hear the truth so often and still deny it exist. But it is par for the course.

Fiat money is a government-issued currency that is not backed by a commodity such as gold. Fiat money gives central banks greater control over the economy because they can control how much money is printed. Most modern paper currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, are fiat currencies.
 

America 1st

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How big of a Tool you are and how far you can stick your head in your ass has no limit. It should be amazing that someone could hear the truth so often and still deny it exist. But it is par for the course.

Fiat money is a government-issued currency that is not backed by a commodity such as gold. Fiat money gives central banks greater control over the economy because they can control how much money is printed. Most modern paper currencies, such as the U.S. dollar, are fiat currencies.
Dollars are backed by commodities (the entire US economy and the goods and services that make it up) unlike Bitcoin and most cryptos.

Do you admit I win now? B/C I'm certainly not the one denying reality.

P.S. fiat means arbitrary (like the value of Bitcoin) not anything to do with whether something is government issued or not.
 

Renegadenole

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Why do you think that cryptos are a form of manipulation and control when they are de-centralised?
He does not understand or doesn’t want to understand the decentralized nature of Bitcoin and what that means.
Bitcoin is truly decentralized.
It is a store of value against Modern Monetary Theory. The government, all governments, are taking their citizens wealth when they print more money. There will only be 21MM Bitcoin. It will stabilize and become one of the greatest stores of value and assets the world has ever know.
Not only an asset but a network and a protocol. And...
Instantly Transferable
Divisible
Auditable
Immutable
Securable
Fungible
Inflation proof
Transparent, all can view the blockchain
It can’t be counterfeited
It can’t be seized when cold stored
It’s the perfect monetary asset and will lead to a better society with more liberties and freedom if you value those things over governments. And why shouldn’t you if you are a true American?
 

America 1st

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Why do you think that cryptos are a form of manipulation and control when they are de-centralised?
"Decentralization" doesn't mean something isn't capable of being manipulated or controlled.

This idea alone, no matter how many times it's repeated, doesn't make it true.

Cryptocurrency, because there are many forms, has various forms of centralization. Coiners just prefer to call them "decentralized" because they aren't produced by a single country (in an attempt to make them seem like something they aren't). State issued currencies are actually less centralized than cryptos since they are only used and traded in their home countries. Even the dollar, being the reserve currency of the world, isn't used in day to day economic activity in 99% of the transactions that take place in other countries.

The SEC, other entities in the Treasury Department, and states themselves regulate Bitcoin and other cryptos in the United States ALREADY as I'm typing this. Cryptos aren't outside of government regulation or manipulation (no matter how much people want that to be true). The US, or any other country, doesn't need to be able to "print" more Bitcoin to be able to manipulate it and the mere suggestion to the contrary shows a real lack of understanding about currencies and economics in general.

Cryptos, just like anything else (and especially so) are capital in motion. Cryptos have no value unless converted into a currency or goods that are a part of an economy tied to central banking. They are, at best, a 2nd degree of manipulation if a person is claiming that state currencies are manipulation by themselves (which is an entirely different discussion).

The C_A & FBI seizes and holds cryptos (including Bitcoin) to unload when they want to affect various positions in the public. Many other countries do this as well as just a couple examples of how they are manipulated.

Cryptos are manipulated all the time but coiners try to make it seem like the "printing" of currency is the only factor that matters when currencies are much more complex than that. That's not even getting into the fact that claiming Bitcoin is in a limited supply can't be proven for another 100+ years.

Even if Bitcoin were in a limited supply no coiner can explain why that, and the deflation it would bring if it were ever used as the real standard currency for any group or nation, would be a good thing (because it wouldn't be).

Deflation brings economies to their knees and is unsustainable in any economic environment unlike "inflation" which is not only sustainable but when applied in moderation (1-3% annually) is the sign of a healthy economy. No person would argue that a growing economy can survive on the same amount of currency forever and to suggest as much just shows people have no fucking clue what they are talking about. Even the amount of gold in my existence is continually increasing which is what makes that whole idea of "fiat" so comical.

If people don't like the amount of dollars in circulation or how they are backed that's one discussion that I've always enjoyed and supported along with removing The Fed. However, suggesting that Bitcoin, or any crypto, should replace the dollar is fucking insane and unjustifiable especially when Americans have it better than anyone else on earth while living in the most prosperous nation in human history.

The Founders themselves created the Treasury and gave the government (We The People) the right to control our own currency. To argue against The Founders and the sovereignty of We The People because someone thinks they know better and are butt hurt about the amount of currency in circulation or whatever is unamerican, selfish, and greedy.
 

America 1st

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He does not understand or doesn’t want to understand the decentralized nature of Bitcoin and what that means.
Bitcoin is truly decentralized.
It is a store of value against Modern Monetary Theory. The government, all governments, are taking their citizens wealth when they print more money. There will only be 21MM Bitcoin. It will stabilize and become one of the greatest stores of value and assets the world has ever know.
Not only an asset but a network and a protocol. And...
Instantly Transferable
Divisible
Auditable
Immutable
Securable
Fungible
Inflation proof
Transparent, all can view the blockchain
It can’t be counterfeited
It can’t be seized when cold stored
It’s the perfect monetary asset and will lead to a better society with more liberties and freedom if you value those things over governments. And why shouldn’t you if you are a true American?
Thanks for proving you have literally no clue how currencies work.

All those things you listed have nothing to do with making something "the perfect monetary source".

In fact many of the attributes of cryptos, and especially Bitcoin, are detrimental to economic activity and a healthy economy (see deflation as just one example).

Nothing like forcing everyone to share their economic activity with the world right? 😂
 

Renegadenole

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"Decentralization" doesn't mean something isn't capable of being manipulated or controlled.

This idea alone, no matter how many times it's repeated, doesn't make it true.

Cryptocurrency, because there are many forms, has various forms of centralization. Coiners just prefer to call them "decentralized" because they aren't produced by a single country (in an attempt to make them seem like something they aren't). State issued currencies are actually less centralized than cryptos since they are only used and traded in their home countries. Even the dollar, being the reserve currency of the world, isn't used in day to day economic activity in 99% of the transactions that take place in other countries.

The SEC, other entities in the Treasury Department, and states themselves regulate Bitcoin and other cryptos in the United States ALREADY as I'm typing this. Cryptos aren't outside of government regulation or manipulation (no matter how much people want that to be true). The US, or any other country, doesn't need to be able to "print" more Bitcoin to be able to manipulate it and the mere suggestion to the contrary shows a real lack of understanding about currencies and economics in general.

Cryptos, just like anything else (and especially so) are capital in motion. Cryptos have no value unless converted into a currency or goods that are a part of an economy tied to central banking. They are, at best, a 2nd degree of manipulation if a person is claiming that state currencies are manipulation by themselves (which is an entirely different discussion).

The C_A & FBI seizes and holds cryptos (including Bitcoin) to unload when they want to affect various positions in the public. Many other countries do this as well as just a couple examples of how they are manipulated.

Cryptos are manipulated all the time but coiners try to make it seem like the "printing" of currency is the only factor that matters when currencies are much more complex than that. That's not even getting into the fact that claiming Bitcoin is in a limited supply can't be proven for another 100+ years.

Even if Bitcoin were in a limited supply no coiner can explain why that, and the deflation it would bring if it were ever used as the real standard currency for any group or nation, would be a good thing (because it wouldn't be).

Deflation brings economies to their knees and is unsustainable in any economic environment unlike "inflation" which is not only sustainable but when applied in moderation (1-3% annually) is the sign of a healthy economy. No person would argue that a growing economy can survive on the same amount of currency forever and to suggest as much just shows people have no fucking clue what they are talking about. Even the amount of gold in my existence is continually increasing which is what makes that whole idea of "fiat" so comical.

If people don't like the amount of dollars in circulation or how they are backed that's one discussion that I've always enjoyed and supported along with removing The Fed. However, suggesting that Bitcoin, or any crypto, should replace the dollar is fucking insane and unjustifiable especially when Americans have it better than anyone else on earth while living in the most prosperous nation in human history.

The Founders themselves created the Treasury and gave the government (We The People) the right to control our own currency. To argue against The Founders and the sovereignty of We The People because someone thinks they know better and are butt hurt about the amount of currency in circulation or whatever is unamerican, selfish, and greedy.
Bitcoin is the most secure form of wealth ever. Your lack of knowledge of what Bitcoin actually is makes this debate worthless.
However, since you, the “greatest American” that’s ever lived, brought up the founding fathers, I’ll add this. America is an idea based on freedoms and liberties. It’s not a flag, it’s not a border or a military and it goddamn well is not the central authority. If it was we would still be a part of England with loyalty to the throne. So stop this dumb shit that America is about a government. It is about liberty and freedom. Both of which Bitcoin will further. Government control is the detriment to the principles of our nation. So in short, if the founding fathers were for anything, they were for freedom. Every one of them would support Bitcoins potential to further the true American ideas.
 

America 1st

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Bitcoin is the most secure form of wealth ever. Your lack of knowledge of what Bitcoin actually is makes this debate worthless.
However, since you, the “greatest American” that’s ever lived, brought up the founding fathers, I’ll add this. America is an idea based on freedoms and liberties. It’s not a flag, it’s not a border or a military and it goddamn well is not the central authority. If it was we would still be a part of England with loyalty to the throne. So stop this dumb shit that America is about a government. It is about liberty and freedom. Both of which Bitcoin will further. Government control is the detriment to the principles of our nation. So in short, if the founding fathers were for anything, they were for freedom. Every one of them would support Bitcoins potential to further the true American ideas.
The certainly would not support a foreign product attempting to displace the currency agreed upon by We The People as set out in the governing document they created and ratified ( The Constitution).

Liberty is essential to the American way of life which is why We The People chose our currency. Saying that another product should usurp the liberty of We The People to choose our own economic platforms is the exact opposite of anything to do with freedom or the principles set out by the Founders.

Citizens from other countries should have as little impact as possible on the American way of life. To claim that "decentralization" (which is really just centralization outside of the US) is anything other than a limiting of American liberties is dangerous.
 

Renegadenole

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The certainly would not support a foreign product attempting to displace the currency agreed upon by We The People as set out in the governing document they created and ratified ( The Constitution).

Liberty is essential to the American way of life which is why We The People chose our currency. Saying that another product should usurp the liberty of We The People to choose our own economic platforms is the exact opposite of anything to do with freedom or the principles set out by the Founders.

Citizens from other countries should have as little impact as possible on the American way of life. To claim that "decentralization" (which is really just centralization outside of the US) is anything other than a limiting of American liberties is dangerous.
You, a useful idiot, a simple chest beater and saber rattler cannot wrap your brain around the fact that “American” is not a currency, it’s not a government or a border. It’s an idea of freedom and liberty. Central control will never expand the Founding Principles.
 

America 1st

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You, a useful idiot, a simple chest beater and saber rattler cannot wrap your brain around the fact that “American” is not a currency, it’s not a government or a border. It’s an idea of freedom and liberty. Central control will never expand the Founding Principles.
Agreed. It is We The People and our rights.

Why are you trying to bypass our liberties, and God given rights, in an attempt adopt a product that has it's control centralized outside of the control of We The People? Do we not have the right to choose for ourselves what is best for us?

You don't have the right to simply do whatever you want. You're arguing people should have the liberty to commit treason or do whatever else they want which simply isn't what The Founders believed (or anything remotely close).
 

ChicagoFats

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He does not understand or doesn’t want to understand the decentralized nature of Bitcoin and what that means.
Bitcoin is truly decentralized.
It is a store of value against Modern Monetary Theory. The government, all governments, are taking their citizens wealth when they print more money. There will only be 21MM Bitcoin. It will stabilize and become one of the greatest stores of value and assets the world has ever know.
Not only an asset but a network and a protocol. And...
Instantly Transferable
Divisible
Auditable
Immutable
Securable
Fungible
Inflation proof
Transparent, all can view the blockchain
It can’t be counterfeited
It can’t be seized when cold stored
It’s the perfect monetary asset and will lead to a better society with more liberties and freedom if you value those things over governments. And why shouldn’t you if you are a true American?
OK - I'll play devils advocate here. Bitcoin is limited to 21mm tokens, but the supply of crypto currency in general is unlimited. Whats to say someone who doesn't have bitcoin cant go purchase ETH or some other token?

Perfect monetary asset is a bit far fetched imo. Start with the energy requirements to run shitcoin. Thats just one concern. What about quantum computers and a 51% attack etc. Lots of desired features remain, so Bitcoin is a far from perfect solution imo.

I was a long time skeptic of cryptocurrency for what its worth but ave since come around and now hold some ETH coins. I am a believer in ETH, not so sure about the rest.
 

ChicagoFats

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Agreed. It is We The People and our rights.

Why are you trying to bypass our liberties, and God given rights, in an attempt adopt a product that has it's control centralized outside of the control of We The People? Do we not have the right to choose for ourselves what is best for us?

You don't have the right to simply do whatever you want. You're arguing people should have the liberty to commit treason or do whatever else they want which simply isn't what The Founders believed (or anything remotely close).

@America 1st this is a suprising argument from you. It seems like you are arguing for central control?
 

America 1st

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@America 1st this is a suprising argument from you. It seems like you are arguing for central control?
Against it.

Sovereign nation's should control their own destiny just as Trump has said numerous times.

The ideas that nation's wouldn't control their own currencies is ludicrous and the very definition of "centralized" control.

It's quite literally what is described in the last book.
 

Renegadenole

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OK - I'll play devils advocate here. Bitcoin is limited to 21mm tokens, but the supply of crypto currency in general is unlimited. Whats to say someone who doesn't have bitcoin cant go purchase ETH or some other token?

Perfect monetary asset is a bit far fetched imo. Start with the energy requirements to run shitcoin. Thats just one concern. What about quantum computers and a 51% attack etc. Lots of desired features remain, so Bitcoin is a far from perfect solution imo.

I was a long time skeptic of cryptocurrency for what its worth but ave since come around and now hold some ETH coins. I am a believer in ETH, not so sure about the rest.
Fats - I own a good deal of ETH as a hedge but it’s not as secure. ETH is fairly centralized when compared to BTC, it’s ran on Amazon servers, it’s been hacked before and the “owners” have rolled back the blockchain to seize assets. None of which is possible on BTC. BTC is ran on and validated by 10’s of thousands of independent nodes, it’s never been hacked and is not owned by anyone. It is the most secure store of value in the world.
 

Renegadenole

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This isn’t a surprise. As a matter of absolute fact, it was thought to be higher. Somewhere around 35-40 percent. Either way, those coins are sold on the open market and owned by the richest nations and true liberty loving Americans like myself. China is taking the money to prop up the Yaun. Which will be third place, if it’s lucky, behind Bitcoin and the USD.
American government better get its head out of the sand and start paying attention (I suspect they already have). Bitcoin isn’t going anywhere and can’t be manipulated. Much like electricity, the car, computers the internet, it’s best adopted early and utilized for good. If not, it will roll you over and leave you behind.
Don’t be a government tool your whole life. Wake up to real liberty and freedom for the people.
 

America 1st

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This isn’t a surprise. As a matter of absolute fact, it was thought to be higher. Somewhere around 35-40 percent. Either way, those coins are sold on the open market and owned by the richest nations and true liberty loving Americans like myself. China is taking the money to prop up the Yaun. Which will be third place, if it’s lucky, behind Bitcoin and the USD.
American government better get its head out of the sand and start paying attention (I suspect they already have). Bitcoin isn’t going anywhere and can’t be manipulated. Much like electricity, the car, computers the internet, it’s best adopted early and utilized for good. If not, it will roll you over and leave you behind.
Don’t be a government tool your whole life. Wake up to real liberty and freedom for the people.
The only tools are the ones advocating to overturn the will of We The People because their greedy.
 

Renegadenole

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The only tools are the ones advocating to overturn the will of We The People because their greedy.
Bitcoin isn’t meant to build wealth. It is a store of value and the purest currency ever invented. It’s capped at 21MM total. Just stop for a second and understand the economics and big picture.
Soon small nations will accept it as their currency, then larger ones. It will stop all the dirty money and blood moneys that rule the earth and rule our own government.
 

America 1st

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Bitcoin isn’t meant to build wealth. It is a store of value and the purest currency ever invented. It’s capped at 21MM total. Just stop for a second and understand the economics and big picture.
Soon small nations will accept it as their currency, then larger ones. It will stop all the dirty money and blood moneys that rule the earth and rule our own government.
images (1).jpeg

So that's why it's drug cartels, human smugglers, and communists traffic in the product?

P.S. currencies can't be "pure". The hard cap on the amount of Bitcoin (supposedly) is just another example of why it can't be used as currency (and thus only a store of value commodity). Deflation is a MUCH bigger problem than any amount of inflation. Maybe you should stop for a second and understand the economics and the big picture?
 

Renegadenole

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View attachment 17753

So that's why it's drug cartels, human smugglers, and communists traffic in the product?

P.S. currencies can't be "pure". The hard cap on the amount of Bitcoin (supposedly) is just another example of why it can't be used as currency (and thus only a store of value commodity). Deflation is a MUCH bigger problem than any amount of inflation. Maybe you should stop for a second and understand the economics and the big picture?
Imagine not being able to understand simple things like, the USD is the most often used currency for nefarious means and Bitcoin is infinitely divisible.
No matter how many times it’s explained and no matter how slowly.
 

America 1st

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Imagine not being able to understand simple things like, the USD is the most often used currency for nefarious means and Bitcoin is infinitely divisible.
No matter how many times it’s explained and no matter how slowly.
Infinite divisibility doesn't stop deflation...

USD isn't championed as a means to stop "corruption" or "blood money" but it does do a pretty great job of limiting those things (and other nefarious activities) via the controls the US government has over it as the nation's currency.

Seems like some people don't get it no matter how slowly it's explained to them.
 

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