Peterson and Saad interview on Postmodernism is must watch.

CBradSmith

CBradSmith

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The overview is a 2 hour conversation about Gad Saad's book, The Parasitic Mind, which goes over postmodernism, militant feminism, critical race theory, and others.

Summary is that they explain why postmodernism is defunct as an idea, why it perpetuates, and how it is a threat to legitimate sciences and tangible life.

I cannot over recommend taking the time to watch and digest this. It explains the ideas that are governing an entire half of our politics.

 
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Started taking some notes with time stamps about an hour in.

The first 30 to 45 minutes seem to be Peterson demonstrating the validity in the foundation of Saad's positions and personal headspace by asking devil's advocate style questions...basically trying to anticipate and inoculate against the vectors of attack that opponents of Saad (and Peterson) will take when attacking his book and analysis.
 
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(Not the most comprehensive notes)

1:01 What is "the alternative" that can be presented (via question, so as to challenge) to someone who only knows the postmodernistic "framework?" I.e. the young.

1:05-6 Business practitioners versus Business professors and the detachment of the latter from their business understanding's from reality. Because the professor doesn't received the "corrective" of the consequence of the free market (via a bad business decision or strategy), they can "herd" to and fro based on migrations of sociological biases over time.


1:12 Not a single epistemological way of knowing truth (claim of postmodernism)....multiple ways to adjudicate what is and isnt truth. Nomological network

1:17 How to know something is real, you evaluate by triangulation, but even more dimensions. Expand to 5 senses. Then consult other people to see if their senses align. Now do this across time or different instances. Now you have multiple dimensions of confirmation.

1:19 1959 paper Multi-trait Multimethod Matrix by Campbell

Earlier one by Cronback validity in psychological tests. A method for knowing what is real.

1:23. If you approach a phenomenon from one perspective are you reading into the data when you see a pattern or is the data presenting the pattern? If you're using only one methodology, then you don't know.

1:27 Consilience of how physics, biology and other sciences all build upon, tie into and are supported by each other. Postmodernism exists within it's own ecosystem. A stand alone node of "bullshit."

1:36 Importance of going after Postmodernism is because it's a fundamental attack on the epistemology of truth/knowing reality. Gave example of the problematic differences between attacking the parasitic leftist ideologies vs Trump "lies."

1:40 The grand conclusion is that Postmodernists are willing to sacrifice the true pursuit of truth for it's own aggrandizement. No concern that their stand alone field undermines reality due to their practitioners own self interest.

1:46 How the idea pathogens share a commonality that they are detached from reality.
 
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I like Gad Saad. He has some great takes as well as clever biting sarcasm. I especially enjoyed when he verbally pistol-whipped Seth Rogen for being a hypocritical douche.
 
Croot_Overlord said:
I want to make you proud, but damn it takes an act of God for me to focus on something for more than a few minutes
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Lol.

To be fair, the conversation is so content heavy that I had to rewind and listen again many times. Was also cross referencing some of the ideas or references that I was unfamiliar with. I.e. Nomological networks, Lee Cronbach, Jeffrey Gray, Gerd Gigerenzer, e.t.c
 
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CBradSmith said:
Bump for the weekend crowd.

It's not a wasted 2 hours and provides foundational insight to the core philosophy driving today's leftists.
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Why do you spend so much time on them (the left)?

I like your drive and determination to find answers but the topics you select legitimately confuse me (like our discussion on Dr. Carson last).
 
CBradSmith said:
Lol.

To be fair, the conversation is so content heavy that I had to rewind and listen again many times. Was also was cross referencing some of the ideas or references that I was unfamiliar with. I.e. Nomological networks, Lee Cronbach, Jeffrey Gray, Gerd Gigerenzer, e.t.c
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I can engage and lock in if I’m hands on, but I struggle a ton watching and listening. I do much better reading and doing.
 
America 1st said:
You're clearly very intelligent so I was just curious what your motivation was.

Didn't really follow folks on tMB so not being a smart ass or tongue in cheek.
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Thanks for the nicety. My mindset is one of humility.

To your question:

Because they are a huge pain in the ass. I dont want my future kids nor friends nor family nor anybody that simply doesn't align with the Left (or is the target of their sick beliefs) to have to endure too much of what they are pushing.

I'm impelled to advocate for and insist upon systems that are as close to maximizing as possible while being bound by the rules and laws of economics, psychology, biology, whatever, and my understanding in a variety of fields leads me to believe that the Left is now living in essentially an upside down world.

I watch videos like the one posted to better understand how they (the Left) end up there. It isn't because they are all "evil." It's some framework of thinking that's **sufficiently** explanatory of a worldview as to be reproducible...to have others "buy in" to it.

This video, more than anything else I've seen, read or watched, fills in some gaps as to the structure of the framework the Left is relying upon to maintain their worldviews.

That understanding finally presents an opening for the development of counterattack and cultural pushback.

It's flummoxed me that the Left has bent their understanding of reality to a point it *will* inevitably have consequences that we *all* pay. That cost will compound over time the longer its unchecked.
 
CBradSmith said:
Thanks for the nicety. My mindset is one of humility.

To your question:

Because they are a huge pain in the ass. I dont want my future kids nor friends nor family nor anybody that simply doesn't align with the Left (or is the target of their sick beliefs) to have to endure too much of what they are pushing.

I'm impelled to advocate for and insist upon systems that are as close to maximizing as possible while being bound by the rules and laws of economics, psychology, biology, whatever, and my understanding in a variety of fields leads me to believe that the Left is now living in essentially an upside down world.

I watch videos like the one posted to better understand how they (the Left) end up there. It isn't because they are all "evil." It's some framework of thinking that's **sufficiently** explanatory of a worldview as to be reproducible...to have others "buy in" to it.

This video, more than anything else I've seen, read or watched, fills in some gaps as to the structure of the framework the Left is relying upon to maintain their worldviews.

That understanding finally presents an opening for the development of counterattack and cultural pushback.

It's flummoxed me that the Left has bent their understanding of reality to a point it *will* inevitably have consequences that we *all* pay. That cost will compound over time the longer its unchecked.
Click to expand...
So we pretty much agree on everything with the bold being 100% alignment.

How old are you and what state?
 
CBradSmith said:
Thanks for the nicety. My mindset is one of humility.

To your question:

Because they are a huge pain in the ass. I dont want my future kids nor friends nor family nor anybody that simply doesn't align with the Left (or is the target of their sick beliefs) to have to endure too much of what they are pushing.

I'm impelled to advocate for and insist upon systems that are as close to maximizing as possible while being bound by the rules and laws of economics, psychology, biology, whatever, and my understanding in a variety of fields leads me to believe that the Left is now living in essentially an upside down world.

I watch videos like the one posted to better understand how they (the Left) end up there. It isn't because they are all "evil." It's some framework of thinking that's **sufficiently** explanatory of a worldview as to be reproducible...to have others "buy in" to it.

This video, more than anything else I've seen, read or watched, fills in some gaps as to the structure of the framework the Left is relying upon to maintain their worldviews.

That understanding finally presents an opening for the development of counterattack and cultural pushback.

It's flummoxed me that the Left has bent their understanding of reality to a point it *will* inevitably have consequences that we *all* pay. That cost will compound over time the longer its unchecked.
Click to expand...
Whenever you see someone chock full of their ideology just look at them and say “you don’t look well, are you feeling okay”

And if it’s someone close to you make sure to throw in a “I’m worried about you”

Do not get into any ideological discussion, just leave it at that
 
Croot_Overlord said:
Whenever you see someone chock full of their ideology just look at them and say “you don’t look well, are you feeling okay”

And if it’s someone close to you make sure to throw in a “I’m worried about you”

Do not get into any ideological discussion, just leave it at that
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My wife's brother and father are this way.

The way they say 'Republicans' is something to behold. The father is a history teacher at ohio dominion and he doesn't emphasize 'nazis' in nearly the same way.

They aren't even capable of speaking to each other anymore because of the ideology.
 
America 1st said:
So we pretty much agree on everything with the bold being 100% alignment.

How old are you and what state?
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I'm gonna answer this then edit to remove. My handle is my name, but Smith is sufficiently generic that I can reasonably feel anonymous. I'm not scared of doxxing, but I dont want to make it easy either for an unhinged and motivated Leftist to cause me a headache.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so to speak.

42, Oklahoma. Born here. Recently moved back. Spent 15 years in Texas.
 
CBradSmith said:
I'm gonna answer this then edit to remove. My handle is my name, but Smith is sufficiently generic that I can reasonably feel anonymous. I'm not scared of doxxing, but I dont want to make it easy either for an unhinged and motivated Leftist to cause me a headache.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, so to speak.

42, Oklahoma. Born here. Recently moved back. Spent 15 years in Texas.
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Interesting.

Appreciate your honesty and time.

There is no way we all aren't going to pay a massive price for the trends we're seeing now.

The inflation taking hold already is going to be a problem very quickly for the poor and middle class folks. Low wage / skill earners like myself are going to be especially bitter and hard pressed quick.
 
Croot_Overlord said:
Whenever you see someone chock full of their ideology just look at them and say “you don’t look well, are you feeling okay”

And if it’s someone close to you make sure to throw in a “I’m worried about you”

Do not get into any ideological discussion, just leave it at that
Click to expand...
Yeah, there are several methods for getting them off balance, shutting them down, or walking away asking questions.

But that framework is self reinforcing. And if they don't have an alternative mental model by which to understand the world, how do they break out? An example of someone without an alternative is a kid in college who has been captive to the educational sphere their entire lives. Especially if they never take any legit science courses that expose them to the Scientific Method, like physics, chemistry or biology.
 
CBradSmith said:
Yeah, there are several methods for getting them off balance, shutting them down, or walking away asking questions.

But that framework is self reinforcing. And if they don't have an alternative worldview by which to understand the world, how do they break out? An example of someone without an alternative is a kid in college who has been captive to the educational sphere their entire lives.
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The only way to get through someone that has been heavily conditioned is to push them to a psychological breaking point. There is no reason or logic involved.

Telling them they look like they are not well is the simplest way to make them begin to think that something is going wrong with them. No reason or logic needed to get this going. It works much better if they have some respect for you first.

They next step is to catch them when they have the psychological break - that is when you can shove in new ideas. The trick is catching them at the right time

1613794287005.jpeg

1613794256548.jpeg
 
America 1st said:
Interesting.

Appreciate your honesty and time.

There is no way we all aren't going to pay a massive price for the trends we're seeing now.

The inflation taking hold already is going to be a problem very quickly for the poor and middle class folks. Low wage / skill earners like myself are going to be especially bitter and hard pressed quick.
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Innovation has kept us in front of inflation for a while now. Now that innovation is no longer the biggest driver of Big Tech "value" (replaced by paying for protections from being busted up for monopolistic practices), it will be interesting to see how much inflation starts rearing its head.

Couple that with the Left's trajectory of fucking up small business's world by blowing up their personnel costs...whew lad....I hate to speculate.
 
CBradSmith said:
Innovation has kept us in front of inflation for a while now. Now that innovation is no longer the biggest driver of Big Tech "value" (replaced by paying for protections from being busted up for monopolistic practices), it will be interesting to see how much inflation starts rearing its head.

Couple that with the Left's trajectory of fucking up small business's world by blowing up their personnel costs...whew lad....I hate to speculate.
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It's not going to slow down because for 9/10 on the left there is no logic involved or need for congruence in their beliefs and actions.

At 27 most people my age just want the burden lessened. They don't care what they have to sacrifice to have less responsibility for their circumstances.
 
Croot_Overlord said:
The only way to get through someone that has been heavily conditioned is to push them to a psychological breaking point. There is no reason or logic involved.

Telling them they look like they are not well is the simplest way to make them begin to think that something is going wrong with them. No reason or logic needed to get this going. It works much better if they have some respect for you first.

They next step is to catch them when they have the psychological break - that is when you can shove in new ideas. The trick is catching them at the right time

View attachment 7861

View attachment 7860
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That has merit.

I still think you can parallel that with strategic questions that they simply cant answer given their current worldview. Those unanswered questions act as seeds that grow and eventually bust up the foundation they think they have.

An example might be "Science shows that people born male have bone density significantly greater than those born female. The risk of injury is much larger for female-born individuals on sports fields and courts that were previously reserved for female-born only. How is that fair or equitable to the female-born individual?"

It's not a kill shot. It's a wound that festers.
 
America 1st said:
It's not going to slow down because for 9/10 on the left there is no logic involved or need for congruence in their beliefs and actions.

At 27 most people my age just want the burden lessened. They don't care what they have to sacrifice to have less responsibility for their circumstances.
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Care to elaborate on this?

I was there once. My path might have been one less traveled, but certainly more than 50% of 20-somethings eventually adopt goals past getting laid or getting high this weekend.
 
CBradSmith said:
That has merit.

I still think you can parallel that with strategic questions that they simply cant answer given their current worldview. Those unanswered questions act as seeds that grow and eventually bust up the foundation they think they have.

An example might be "Science shows that people born male have bone density significantly greater than those born female. The risk of injury is much larger for female-born individuals on sports fields and courts that were previously reserved for female-born only. How is that fair or equitable to the female-born individual?"

It's not a kill shot. It's a wound that festers.
Click to expand...
I think that works and has its place but honestly $$$ still gets people the easiest from my experience.

Being poor is what started this out of control train down the tracks and it's still the easiest to red pill with.

Ex:
How come 46 is lessening the burden on drug companies with insulin prices? Doesn't everyone deserve to have access to insulin at a reasonable price?

Or

If insurance is predicated on the fundamental notion of making people whole with regards to their claims then how can health insurance exist? Does money make incurable diseases better and if not then how would government that's run by (insert whichever group necessary) make people whole by controlling all the money flow?
 
CBradSmith said:
That has merit.

I still think you can parallel that with strategic questions that they simply cant answer given their current worldview. Those unanswered questions act as seeds that grow and eventually bust up the foundation they think they have.

An example might be "Science shows that people born male have bone density significantly greater than those born female. The risk of injury is much larger for female-born individuals on sports fields and courts that were previously reserved for female-born only. How is that fair or equitable to the female-born individual?"

It's not a kill shot. It's a wound that festers.
Click to expand...
I kinda see where you are coming from, but a question like that is not a viral idea. Reason will not work on someone that is immersed in dogma - you have to use different attack vectors. They are generally aware of all the opposing arguments, just choose to outright ignore it.

Memetics is a very real thing that distills the question you have right there into very simple ideas. Combining technology, memetics and psychology is a ruthless combination.

Technology provides the modern carriage, memetics the virus itself and psychology provides the weakening of the immune system (and the timing).
 
CBradSmith said:
Care to elaborate on this?

I was there once. My path might have been one less traveled, but certainly more than 50% of 20-somethings eventually adopt goals past getting laid or getting high this weekend.
Click to expand...
I'd say most 25+ year olds are more focused on survival these days if they live on their own / pay their own bills. Look at the number of folks living at home in the younger age group for confirmation of this from both angles.

I'm in a very unique circumstance being married and never having to worry about money but anyone I know around my age is just struggling to pay for anything regardless of ideology.
 
America 1st said:
I think that works and has its place but honestly $$$ still gets people the easiest from my experience.

Being poor is what started this out of control train down the tracks and it's still the easiest to red pill with.

Ex:
How come 46 is lessening the burden on drug companies with insulin prices? Doesn't everyone deserve to have access to insulin at a reasonable price?

Or

If insurance is predicated on the fundamental notion of making people whole with regards to their claims then how can health insurance exist? Does money make incurable diseases better and if not then how would government that's run by (insert whichever group necessary) make people whole by controlling all the money flow?
Click to expand...
Those are undoubtedly good questions to plant seeds of doubt in their political leanings.

Talking to a person big into fitness: "Your likely in a very low risk health category, great job! But you pay will pay the same amount as that person, that person, and that person (pointing to 3 differently morbidly obese folks) who will on average likely have 10 to 20 times the medical expenses as you. How is that equitable to you and all the hard work you put in? Why are you pooled with them?"
 
Croot_Overlord said:
I kinda see where you are coming from, but a question like that is not a viral idea. Reason will not work on someone that is immersed in dogma - you have to use different attack vectors. They are generally aware of all the opposing arguments, just choose to outright ignore it.

Memetics is a very real thing that distills the question you have right there into very simple ideas. Combining technology, memetics and psychology is a ruthless combination.

Technology provides the modern carriage, memetics the virus itself and psychology provides the weakening of the immune system (and the timing).
Click to expand...
I'll have to dig in to memetics. Don't know that I've even heard the word before. Are the books you posted a solid place to start?
 
CBradSmith said:
I'll have to dig in to memetics. Don't know that I've even heard the word before. Are the books you posted a solid place to start?
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Young people are exposed to 100's of ideas a day through memetics.

1 good meme maker can have millions of conversations every day when backed by the right tech.
 
CBradSmith said:
Thanks for the nicety. My mindset is one of humility.

To your question:

Because they are a huge pain in the ass. I dont want my future kids nor friends nor family nor anybody that simply doesn't align with the Left (or is the target of their sick beliefs) to have to endure too much of what they are pushing.

I'm impelled to advocate for and insist upon systems that are as close to maximizing as possible while being bound by the rules and laws of economics, psychology, biology, whatever, and my understanding in a variety of fields leads me to believe that the Left is now living in essentially an upside down world.

I watch videos like the one posted to better understand how they (the Left) end up there. It isn't because they are all "evil." It's some framework of thinking that's **sufficiently** explanatory of a worldview as to be reproducible...to have others "buy in" to it.

This video, more than anything else I've seen, read or watched, fills in some gaps as to the structure of the framework the Left is relying upon to maintain their worldviews.

That understanding finally presents an opening for the development of counterattack and cultural pushback.

It's flummoxed me that the Left has bent their understanding of reality to a point it *will* inevitably have consequences that we *all* pay. That cost will compound over time the longer its unchecked.
Click to expand...

Nicely said. I look at it this way - the Left has adopted a wholly human created world view. They continually move the goal posts and use language very effectively.

JP and Saad break down the components of that worldview and skewer the foundations of leftist thought. It’s helpful for me when debating those on the left, because i can ask thoughtful and open ended questions to challenge them, as opposed to just saying “nuh uhh” when I’m invariably accused of being a racist, sexist, misogamist, homophobe.

We will win this fight if the merits of our ideas are able to reach the masses and resonate. The challenge here is the left’s dominance of our culture, academia, and politics. The crazy thing is....what we’re advocating for is Classic Liberalism, not to be confused with whatever liberalism is today.
 
CBradSmith said:
I'll have to dig in to memetics. Don't know that I've even heard the word before. Are the books you posted a solid place to start?
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The books a posted are related to the psychological side.

Memetics is more related to that Gad Saad is talking about here.

Meme - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

Memetics - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

I haven’t done a thorough dive into memetics - it’s a fairly new science - although the basics of it (influential ideas) have been around since the beginning of time. A better way to relate it in a historical context is to call it influential symbolism - then you can start lining the memetics idea up with some stuff from Carl Jung (like his book Man and His Symbols).
 
Dtcliffo said:
Nicely said. I look at it this way - the Left has adopted a wholly human created world view. They continually move the goal posts and use language very effectively.

JP and Saad break down the components of that worldview and skewer the foundations of leftist thought. It’s helpful for me when debating those on the left, because i can ask thoughtful and open ended questions to challenge them, as opposed to just saying “nuh uhh” when I’m invariably accused of being a racist, sexist, misogamist, homophobe.

We will win this fight if the merits of our ideas are able to reach the masses and resonate. The challenge here is the left’s dominance of our culture, academia, and politics. The crazy thing is....what we’re advocating for is Classic Liberalism, not to be confused with whatever liberalism is today.
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So much this.

It's a culture war and we need to be using every resource available to us like any good warrior.
 

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