Laws of Logic

[AntonGoldnagel]

Laws of Logic

I believe Logic stems from a creator.
Why do I think that?
Because in a "explosion universe" why would logic exist ? There would be only chaos.

The Big Bang is an explosion that supposedly happened from "nothing".
Not only is this impssible, but it would only result in randomness, that is the exact opposite from logic, order and design.
Claiming that time played a role in bringing order, is attributing "time" an intelligence that it does not possess.

The fact that order and logic exist is a proof of a creator.
In a chance universe laws of physics, mathematics and logic would at best be without standards or uniformity and most likely not exist at all.

Additionally, Universal laws don't change with time and space and can be relied on to plan our lives wherever we go, day after day.
If our car fails to start in the morning, we don't ask ourselves have the laws of physics changed today ? Rather we would suspect a mechanical or electrical failure.
Thus, If expected results don't eventuate we never assume a shift of the laws of nature, but assume that the situation or conditions have changed.

The reason that these laws are so reliable is because they have been designed to be that way by a consistent designer, all science is predicated on that.

What about right and wrong ?
How would right and wrong make sense if we were the result of an explosion ?
Who would decide what is right or wrong ?

If we were the product of a chance chemical and electric concoction,why would what one chemical accident does to another chemical reaction be morally relevant ?

Has anyone ever severely admonished an apple for being too starchy or encarserated a lion for eating an antelope?
Of course not, one is the result of a chemical process the other is the action of an animal who is not bound by God's standard of conduct.
Chemical reaction are not bound by moral laws, but humans are, its because we are
more than the sums of our parts, we are God's creation.
Were this not the case nobody would have the right to make moral laws and only be accountable to themselves.

In an atheistic world right and wrong can only be arbitrarily decided by whoever is in power and would only be obeyed because of possible reprisal by the stronger animal.

It's not that atheist don't believe in morality or logic, because they do.
The point is because of their world view they have no logical foundation for believing it.

 

[shiv]

Why not just believe that the big bang was God's way of initiating the creation. Creating the heavens so to speak.

The big bang generated mostly Hydrogen and Helium. The most basic elements. Stars were formed from collections of gas and dust (hydrogen and helium atoms) and then these stars were hot enough to generate a nuclear reaction which resulted in the lighter elements being converted into the heavier ones. Once the stars go supernova the process repeats itself. Eventually large amounts of carbon collected together and form into planetary bodies (creation of Earth). The concept of a day didn't exist until the sun was formed and the Earth was formed, so all of this happened within the first day

Seems logical to me.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Entropy, the 2nd law of Thermodynamics is logically proof that the universe was created..........just like the bible says, not over billions of years.

Entropy states that organization leads to disorganization........thusly, the state of what we see today is less organized than it was yesterday..........everything is "dying" so to speak.

Order does not come from disorder. Logically, order could come from nothing however.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

The point is because of their world view they have no logical foundation for believing it.

This is true and a paradox to this line of thinking, making it incorrect

Additionally, Universal laws don't change with time and space and can be relied on to plan our lives wherever we go, day after day.
If our car fails to start in the morning, we don't ask ourselves have the laws of physics changed today ? Rather we would suspect a mechanical or electrical failure.
Thus, If expected results don't eventuate we never assume a shift of the laws of nature, but assume that the situation or conditions have changed.

This is a great analogy

Why not just believe that the big bang was God's way of initiating the creation. Creating the heavens so to speak.

Why not. Could have been, and it seems that the evidence moves that way.

The big bang generated mostly Hydrogen and Helium. The most basic elements. Stars were formed from collections of gas and dust (hydrogen and helium atoms) and then these stars were hot enough to generate a nuclear reaction which resulted in the lighter elements being converted into the heavier ones. Once the stars go supernova the process repeats itself. Eventually large amounts of carbon collected together and form into planetary bodies (creation of Earth). The concept of a day didn't exist until the sun was formed and the Earth was formed, so all of this happened within the first day

Seems logical to me.

Me too. The Issue I have with this, when evolutionary atheists bring it up is the factor of time. THE ONLY thing that makes any of these notions, converse to creation, is time. To the person who is ignorant to reality, anything could happen with enough time right? Wrong.

Using the car analogy @AntonGoldnagel

lets say we have all the parts to an engine.........the crankshaft, the pistons, the camshaft, the valves and springs and so on.............they are all perfectly machined and ready to be assembled......

now lets put them in a box and shake them up........lets shake them in every which way, do whatever combination of whatever you want to them..........what happens to the parts, do they become an engine?

Some would say, that given enough tries, in the right circumstances, you would open the box, and their would be an engine.

This is the idea of evolution, and the scientific explanation of life.

 

[AntonGoldnagel]

This is true and a paradox to this line of thinking, making it incorrect

This is a great analogy

Why not. Could have been, and it seems that the evidence moves that way.

Me too. The Issue I have with this, when evolutionary atheists bring it up is the factor of time. THE ONLY thing that makes any of these notions, converse to creation, is time. To the person who is ignorant to reality, anything could happen with enough time right? Wrong.

Using the car analogy @AntonGoldnagel

lets say we have all the parts to an engine.........the crankshaft, the pistons, the camshaft, the valves and springs and so on.............they are all perfectly machined and ready to be assembled......

now lets put them in a box and shake them up........lets shake them in every which way, do whatever combination of whatever you want to them..........what happens to the parts, do they become an engine?

Some would say, that given enough tries, in the right circumstances, you would open the box, and their would be an engine.

This is the idea of evolution, and the scientific explanation of life.

Hi,

Yes, that's one explanation. However it creates just more unanswerable questions.
Where do the parts come from?
Who created the box?
Who does the shaking?
This analogy uses dozens of part, can this premise still be valid with billions of parts? (i.e. dna blueprint).

 

[AntonGoldnagel]

Why not just believe that the big bang was God's way of initiating the creation. Creating the heavens so to speak.

The big bang generated mostly Hydrogen and Helium. The most basic elements. Stars were formed from collections of gas and dust (hydrogen and helium atoms) and then these stars were hot enough to generate a nuclear reaction which resulted in the lighter elements being converted into the heavier ones. Once the stars go supernova the process repeats itself. Eventually large amounts of carbon collected together and form into planetary bodies (creation of Earth). The concept of a day didn't exist until the sun was formed and the Earth was formed, so all of this happened within the first day

Seems logical to me.

Hi,
I agree it is one way God could have created the universe.
The question is what possible reason would he have to use such a process.
God certainly controlled all the elements to accomplish his design, why not do it without the additional complexity of controlling an explosion?
Personally I have two more reason for not believing on an explosion.
There is nothing "scientific" about it.
Second, since the idea was conceived by a Catholic priest (George Lemaire) it can be considered a religious concept.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Hi,

Yes, that's one explanation. However it creates just more unanswerable questions.
Where do the parts come from?
Who created the box?
Who does the shaking?
This analogy uses dozens of part, can this premise still be valid with billions of parts? (i.e. dna blueprint).

Adding more parts to the hypothetical just makes the odds worse. The hypothetical does not require a maker for the parts, box, raw material, shaker, or anything.........all that you list make it exponentially more impossible to the engine to be made out of the hypothetical box.

I am struggling to understand your view?

Do you think that creation is correct?

 

[AntonGoldnagel]

Adding more parts to the hypothetical just makes the odds worse. The hypothetical does not require a maker for the parts, box, raw material, shaker, or anything.........all that you list make it exponentially more impossible to the engine to be made out of the hypothetical box.

I am struggling to understand your view?

Do you think that creation is correct?

Hi,
Certainly, I think that creation by a designer is the only explanation that clears the haziness surrounding our origin. I'm sorry if I was not clear on that.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

creation by a designer

who?

 

[AntonGoldnagel]

who?

Isa 42:5 Thus says Jahwe, Who created the heavens and earth and ...... Who gives breath to the people on it...

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Isa 42:5 Thus says Jahwe, Who created the heavens and earth and ...... Who gives breath to the people on it...

but is that what you think? Do you think that GOD is the creator? Not aliens, not satan, not whoever else?

 

[AntonGoldnagel]

but is that what you think? Do you think that GOD is the creator? Not aliens, not satan, not whoever else?

No! Why would I think that?

 

[Deleted]

Why not just believe that the big bang was God's way of initiating the creation. Creating the heavens so to speak.

The big bang generated mostly Hydrogen and Helium. The most basic elements. Stars were formed from collections of gas and dust (hydrogen and helium atoms) and then these stars were hot enough to generate a nuclear reaction which resulted in the lighter elements being converted into the heavier ones. Once the stars go supernova the process repeats itself. Eventually large amounts of carbon collected together and form into planetary bodies (creation of Earth). The concept of a day didn't exist until the sun was formed and the Earth was formed, so all of this happened within the first day

Seems logical to me.

 

[Deleted]

Why not just believe that the big bang was God's way of initiating the creation. Creating the heavens so to speak.

The big bang generated mostly Hydrogen and Helium. The most basic elements. Stars were formed from collections of gas and dust (hydrogen and helium atoms) and then these stars were hot enough to generate a nuclear reaction which resulted in the lighter elements being converted into the heavier ones. Once the stars go supernova the process repeats itself. Eventually large amounts of carbon collected together and form into planetary bodies (creation of Earth). The concept of a day didn't exist until the sun was formed and the Earth was formed, so all of this happened within the first day

Seems logical to me.