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Derek Chauvin Trial/George Floyd/Minneapolis

Nas

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As society we either need to get back to wild west style justice or begin to train officers that their life isn't at risk in every situation (lol) and that they are there to support the community by trying to not make arrests wherever possible.

Society and culture are mostly to blame for this sad state of affairs.

Aa someone who was illegally detained and charged by undercover ATF (charges thrown out in court) I promise you that if you don't resist arrest things work out much better for everyone involved.

People resisting arrest are liter Ali on par with murders and child abusers.
Buddy, officers arent trying to make arrests whenever possible. Its pointless. Prosecutors dont go through with anything. In most major cities non violent misdemeanors arent even charged. You can arrest but then ask the prosecutor to bring charges. Which they don't. Waste 2 hours on paper for something that will get thrown out, or hide out and be safe? Most good police work comes from hanging paper on known shit bags knowing you will get a warrant later. You cant do that anymore.
More importantly - when you live in a decent place and your property gets damaged, or prostitution takes place, or dope boys sell minimum level weight knowing F5 dope just gets turned in for destruction - your area gets destroyed.

In my particular area DV arrests are almost entirely knocked down to disorderly conduct, which is not even close to matching the elements needed for PC.

Criminals are criminals. There will always be criminals. I'm in a bad place like Maize listed. There are still some good people there, and keeping the wolves at bay is why I put up with it.

I work in a very well trained department. My Dad was a cop in the same area so I get what was mentioned above about being old school, but you cant do that anymore. Resiting arrest is not a death penalty. It's why we have the use of force continuum. If you were to go overboard on every arrest the streets would have you.

I appreciate everyone showing support for the police. This isnt the case to do it. Much like people blindly supporting Michael Brown hands up dont shoot, you just end up ruining any credibility you have going forward. Not saying you are doing this, but for others that read this.
 

America 1st

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Buddy, officers arent trying to make arrests whenever possible. Its pointless. Prosecutors dont go through with anything. In most major cities non violent misdemeanors arent even charged. You can arrest but then ask the prosecutor to bring charges. Which they don't. Waste 2 hours on paper for something that will get thrown out, or hide out and be safe? Most good police work comes from hanging paper on known shit bags knowing you will get a warrant later. You cant do that anymore.
More importantly - when you live in a decent place and your property gets damaged, or prostitution takes place, or dope boys sell minimum level weight knowing F5 dope just gets turned in for destruction - your area gets destroyed.

In my particular area DV arrests are almost entirely knocked down to disorderly conduct, which is not even close to matching the elements needed for PC.

Criminals are criminals. There will always be criminals. I'm in a bad place like Maize listed. There are still some good people there, and keeping the wolves at bay is why I put up with it.

I work in a very well trained department. My Dad was a cop in the same area so I get what was mentioned above about being old school, but you cant do that anymore. Resiting arrest is not a death penalty. It's why we have the use of force continuum. If you were to go overboard on every arrest the streets would have you.

I appreciate everyone showing support for the police. This isnt the case to do it. Much like people blindly supporting Michael Brown hands up dont shoot, you just end up ruining any credibility you have going forward. Not saying you are doing this, but for others that read this.
TLDR but didn't need to if you're a LEO.

No offense but your experience creates bias.

It's why I don't ask politicians for my positions on politics.
 

BTAvenger

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Current LEO with 23 years on the job. 22 on the east side of Detroit.

With all due respect brother, the crowd that is forming is all the more reason to get the fuck out of there ASAP.

Just to clarify, I’m not saying Chauvin will be convicted, because I’m having serious doubts that will happen due to the charges. But he certainly has no business in our profession, and definitely belongs in jail.
I was in NW Baltimore. Started in 98 so I guess I'd have about the same time on that you do if I wasn't retired. I'm with you on needing to get out of dodge ASAP. But as you know sometimes you are made to wait for the wagon to arrive to take the prisoner. And Floyd had already shown that he wouldn't sit in the radio car. Hell...I was shot in part because we made an arrest about 15 minutes before shift change. The old dude in the wagon went in early and his replacement was slow getting out to get our arrestee. So we sat there for like 40 minutes before the cousin of the dude started shooting at us from behind a house across a 4 lane road. And my squad was extremely vigilant. It's just that sometimes you are powerless to get out of an area. I guess in hindsight they could have just tossed him in the car and gotten out of the area themselves. I don't know their procedures there or even if it was a cage car.
 

TJHall1

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College days. Agent was supplementing local effort.

Got the charges thrown because I was able to prove the arresting officer fudged part of the arrest report so that he could justify arresting me before identifying me properly (illegal in Ohio for an undercover).

TLDR: You can't arrest someone in Ohio because they look suspicious.
So he was arresting you for what?
 

Zgdaf

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I’m a retired cop and it angers me to see the media portrayal’s in this case. So much occurred prior to the eight minutes or whatever it was of Floyd being kneeled upon. I’m guessing that Chauvin was old school and likely was a little heavy handed in general when dealing with resisting criminals but when you are in that situation surrounded by countless “citizens” who are all yelling and injecting themselves into the situation time flies like nothing you can ever imagine. Your head is on a swivel because you are constantly looking out for your own safety while in the process holding down a resisting arrestee. The concept of time is not even a remote part of the equation when you are dealing with that.
Chauvin also had a history with Floyd.. never mind, the person making the connection recanted
As society we either need to get back to wild west style justice or begin to train officers that their life isn't at risk in every situation (lol) and that they are there to support the community by trying to not make arrests wherever possible.

Society and culture are mostly to blame for this sad state of affairs.

Aa someone who was illegally detained and charged by undercover ATF (charges thrown out in court) I promise you that if you don't resist arrest things work out much better for everyone involved.

People resisting arrest are liter Ali on par with murders and child abusers.

so this view is not popular, but disbanding the police is needed. Not defund. Neighborhoods can self organize and hire private security as needed.
maybe murder and detective type jobs would make sense to keep,

Police are sworn to protect the constitution, but constantly ignore 4th amendment rights such as fbi eavesdropping, or illegally seize drug money and property without due process.

btw police are not required to protect the citizens. There was a Supreme Court case around the cop in Florida who wouldn’t go in one of the mass shootings they had. Look at the DC pricks who told the family at the trump rally they couldn’t go to their hotel and forced them to walk thru the Antifa protestors.. then laughed when they got attacked.
The police are here to enforce the ruling class wishes and protect their property and interests.

I know a few folks commenting are LEO, and I am not trying to troll you.
 

America 1st

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So he was arresting you for what?
Possession, underage, public consumption, and intent were what ended up on my arrest report.

I wasn't told why I was detained at the time which is part of why I got off.

Just a LEO moving too quick. If he would have asked me to identify myself first he had me dead to rights (short of lying in the report).
 

America 1st

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Chauvin also had a history with Floyd.. never mind, the person making the connection recanted


so this view is not popular, but disbanding the police is needed. Not defund. Neighborhoods can self organize and hire private security as needed.
maybe murder and detective type jobs would make sense to keep,

Police are sworn to protect the constitution, but constantly ignore 4th amendment rights such as fbi eavesdropping, or illegally seize drug money and property without due process.

btw police are not required to protect the citizens. There was a Supreme Court case around the cop in Florida who wouldn’t go in one of the mass shootings they had. Look at the DC pricks who told the family at the trump rally they couldn’t go to their hotel and forced them to walk thru the Antifa protestors.. then laughed when they got attacked.
The police are here to enforce the ruling class wishes and protect their property and interests.

I know a few folks commenting are LEO, and I am not trying to troll you.
You are 99% aligned with me.

Over 50% of the population open carrying is exactly what this country needs.

Also not trying to troll LEOs. Respect y'all.
 

Nas

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You guys keep complaining about federal agencies that are part of the federal government and obvioulsy a huge problem. This isnt a 4th Amendment or Federal LEO issue.

Local municipal law enforcement is held to a standard. In this particular standard, he was trained that keeping someone like that, in cuffs, was going to be life threatening.

I get what Big tiddy Avenger is saying. I've been there, not shot, but seriously hurt in a similar situation. Holding someone with your knee on their neck, when told not to do it because the person can die, is putting everything on the officer.
 

America 1st

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You guys keep complaining about federal agencies that are part of the federal government and obvioulsy a huge problem. This isnt a 4th Amendment or Federal LEO issue.

Local municipal law enforcement is held to a standard. In this particular standard, he was trained that keeping someone like that, in cuffs, was going to be life threatening.

I get what Big tiddy Avenger is saying. I've been there, not shot, but seriously hurt in a similar situation. Holding someone with your knee on their neck, when told not to do it because the person can die, is putting everything on the officer.
That's kinda what I was saying with my point about training.

We can't keep doing this shit where local PD has diff standards all across the country and I definitely don't want some sort of massive federal system.

I'm not going to expand on local PD since you're a part and I don't want this post to seem like an attack on LEOs.
 

Nas

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That's kinda what I was saying with my point about training.

We can't keep doing this shit where local PD has diff standards all across the country and I definitely don't want some sort of massive federal system.

I'm not going to expand on local PD since you're a part and I don't want this post to seem like an attack on LEOs.
Go with it. I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt. I know who I serve and I uphold the 4th. I know not all cops are like that. I dont have any with me that are shitheads. Kinda goes with my initial post about not knowing what kind of training departments have.
 

America 1st

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Go with it. I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt. I know who I serve and I uphold the 4th. I know not all cops are like that. I dont have any with me that are shitheads. Kinda goes with my initial post about not knowing what kind of training departments have.
I'm sure 99% of y'all are good people. You are a good poster and seem like good folk.

You'd think there would be some incentive for local level training to be standardized?

Can y'all self certify by choice via an outside institution in addition to your department stuff?
 

BigBucnNole

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Chauvin also had a history with Floyd.. never mind, the person making the connection recanted

The narrative also hits at him for a history of complaints, which is being construed with “abuse” or not following protocol. Prosecutor also charged him on tax evasion to the tune of like $20k.

It is coordinated character assassination and I’m almost at the point where I hope he wins and turns around and sues the fuck out of the machine. We have a serious problem in this country with prosecutors and media ginning up public outrage for political and financial benefit. It’s worth Chauvin getting off and another city burning down to break these zealous assholes.
 

GarnetPild

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I'm sure 99% of y'all are good people. You are a good poster and seem like good folk.

You'd think there would be some incentive for local level training to be standardized?

Can y'all self certify by choice via an outside institution in addition to your department stuff?

I'd agree the majority are not pieces of shit, but there are not 99% good people in ANY profession. Not even close IMO.
 

Nas

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I'm sure 99% of y'all are good people. You are a good poster and seem like good folk.

You'd think there would be some incentive for local level training to be standardized?

Can y'all self certify by choice via an outside institution in addition to your department stuff?
We do. I think you said you're in Ohio. Ohio has OPOTA, which every law enforcement officer has to be certified through.

The problem is how you police some small town is going to be different from how you police Cleveland. If you work in a town on the Heroin Highway you likely do a lot of traffic stops and hang paper on everyone. I dont do traffic although you could pull anyone over because there are so many violations everyone makes. Only way I do it is if someone does something ridiculous in front of me, or if they're leaving a dope spot or likely to have a gun. In my area the probability of pulling someone over without a license is very high. So, I can either pull someone over and waste an hour on a no license report or I can take calls for service.

Someone else mentioned the complaints. People complain all the time for anything from language to use of force. Whether it was sustained or not is what's important. EX: that cop said shit while he was fighting my husband for resisting arrest for domestic violence.

Prosecutors suck too. I dont see how that guy gets a jury that doesn't know who he is after all of this.
 

America 1st

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We do. I think you said you're in Ohio. Ohio has OPOTA, which every law enforcement officer has to be certified through.

The problem is how you police some small town is going to be different from how you police Cleveland
. If you work in a town on the Heroin Highway you likely do a lot of traffic stops and hang paper on everyone. I dont do traffic although you could pull anyone over because there are so many violations everyone makes. Only way I do it is if someone does something ridiculous in front of me, or if they're leaving a dope spot or likely to have a gun. In my area the probability of pulling someone over without a license is very high. So, I can either pull someone over and waste an hour on a no license report or I can take calls for service.

Someone else mentioned the complaints. People complain all the time for anything from language to use of force. Whether it was sustained or not is what's important. EX: that cop said shit while he was fighting my husband for resisting arrest for domestic violence.

Prosecutors suck too. I dont see how that guy gets a jury that doesn't know who he is after all of this.
You guys need a nationalized system that y'all recognize.

I get what you're saying about small towns being different than big cities but that's exactly the problem; you can't have different SOP all across the country.
 

Nas

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You guys need a nationalized system that y'all recognize.

I get what you're saying about small towns being different than big cities but that's exactly the problem; you can't have different SOP all across the country.
I get what you're saying and agree somewhat. I dont know how it can be done. It comes down to what each community wants. If prosecutors arent willing to charge on good arrests and your not allowed to take people to jail, what do you do?

Small towns will lock everyone up for everything and people get actual jail time for drugs and other offenses we couldnt even slate on. We have a higher rate of barricades and gun violence. I dont know how a small department could do the training and handle those issues.

Its a mess and the only thing I know is federal help is not the answer. No one violates the 4th like those guys.
 

Joe Kings

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I'm LEO. The second point on that slide is what is going to get him convicted. He didnt put him in the recovery position to alleviate asphyxia. He kept him in the initial position that they warn about on the first point for entirely too long.

I take the side of the police on most issues because you cant judge what someone perceives as a threat. Also, you dont know what kind of training other departments have. But, given that slide, which I have seen before, he was wrong.

Fwiw I dont know any officers that think this guy should be let off. He did wrong and he did unfixable damage to the profession.

My original point was there were other officers there doing nothing. Albeit some were very very new and he was a coach. He should have directed them to hold Floyd in the recovery position. More officers put him on his side in the recovery position means less force used.
The police officer absolutely should not go to jail. period. Terrible thing that has happened. Police need a lot more training.
I have opinions about that. What GF did was his own doing. Sucks but like I tell my kids dont do stupid things and stupid things wont happen. Actually its a detailed talk but thats the jest of it. Sad. Idk how George Was as a person but its sad. Derek looks like a jerk and they can paint him that way easily.
 

Zgdaf

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Ok.. with this discussion I went down the rabbit hole 🕳 with this channel.
they do a good job for a layman like myself explaining and quoting the law of these interactions.

 

Nas

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Didnt even make it through the first guy. Complete dbag cop. Nothing else in his life. He takes it home with him and it's his whole identity
 

hmt5000

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The narrative also hits at him for a history of complaints, which is being construed with “abuse” or not following protocol. Prosecutor also charged him on tax evasion to the tune of like $20k.

It is coordinated character assassination and I’m almost at the point where I hope he wins and turns around and sues the fuck out of the machine. We have a serious problem in this country with prosecutors and media ginning up public outrage for political and financial benefit. It’s worth Chauvin getting off and another city burning down to break these zealous assholes.
That is a huge problem. Its like the Breonna Taylor fiasco. They charged about everything they could but the mob wasn't happy. They could of overcharged and let all 3 walk but at least they got one bad cop off the street and probably a few months in jail. The other 2 did everything right by the book so the problem is with dept rules and regs. No knock and night time raids have been a shit show for years and not one dept has limited their use to high level drug members.

What do they expect people to do when you come crashing into their house in the middle of the night?

I think even if Chauvin gets nailed he's going to have a good lawsuit against the dept and the city.
 

hmt5000

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Chauvin also had a history with Floyd.. never mind, the person making the connection recanted


so this view is not popular, but disbanding the police is needed. Not defund. Neighborhoods can self organize and hire private security as needed.
maybe murder and detective type jobs would make sense to keep,

Police are sworn to protect the constitution, but constantly ignore 4th amendment rights such as fbi eavesdropping, or illegally seize drug money and property without due process.

btw police are not required to protect the citizens. There was a Supreme Court case around the cop in Florida who wouldn’t go in one of the mass shootings they had. Look at the DC pricks who told the family at the trump rally they couldn’t go to their hotel and forced them to walk thru the Antifa protestors.. then laughed when they got attacked.
The police are here to enforce the ruling class wishes and protect their property and interests.

I know a few folks commenting are LEO, and I am not trying to troll you.
You watch enough traffic stops and its obvious that most cops are doing pretext stops. They see a car that they want info on the people inside and they just follow behind and wait for a mistake or make shit up. They get to talking and want to search the vehicle. They don't have any pc but they are just curious so they push it. If the dude refuses he calls a k9 and the dog walks around and if it doesn't alert the handler points and the dog alerts and they search the car.

Every/or alot of traffic stops are a pretext to run you for warrants and to search your car. I've had it happen to me twice and after being berated for a few minutes I let the asshole search my truck and when he found nothing he tried to make it sound like he did me a favor and I should thank him. One of the stops was for failure to wear a seatbelt when I had a seatbelt on and I ended up on the sidewalk while some stranger rummaged through my shit.
 

CDDP

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America 1st

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Watching major cities burn is becoming a past time.
 

RonwellQuincyDobbs

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As society we either need to get back to wild west style justice or begin to train officers that their life isn't at risk in every situation (lol) and that they are there to support the community by trying to not make arrests wherever possible.

Society and culture are mostly to blame for this sad state of affairs.

Aa someone who was illegally detained and charged by undercover ATF (charges thrown out in court) I promise you that if you don't resist arrest things work out much better for everyone involved.

People resisting arrest are liter Ali on par with murders and child abusers.

Yep! I have a pretty lengthy, nothing too serious(except my driving the night of my DUI), record and have put myself in many different scenarios that could've turned UGLY very fast! But, you know what, it didn't...Because I just said "Yes sir, no sir" and took my lumps and went to jail and/or took the ticket and shut the fuck up! I knew the potential consequences of my choices before choosing to do the things I did.
 

GarnetPild

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You watch enough traffic stops and its obvious that most cops are doing pretext stops. They see a car that they want info on the people inside and they just follow behind and wait for a mistake or make shit up. They get to talking and want to search the vehicle. They don't have any pc but they are just curious so they push it. If the dude refuses he calls a k9 and the dog walks around and if it doesn't alert the handler points and the dog alerts and they search the car.

Every/or alot of traffic stops are a pretext to run you for warrants and to search your car. I've had it happen to me twice and after being berated for a few minutes I let the asshole search my truck and when he found nothing he tried to make it sound like he did me a favor and I should thank him. One of the stops was for failure to wear a seatbelt when I had a seatbelt on and I ended up on the sidewalk while some stranger rummaged through my shit.

Cops definitely do that. (Make you wait for a K-9 to sniff your around your vehicle) However, it is my understanding that this is not legal, correct me if I'm wrong.

If you are stopped for some violation, and there is no PC to search your vehicle, they can only keep you there as long as it takes to give you your citation. I'm pretty sure they cannot just make you wait, while a K-9 is brought to the scene, even though they do this all the time. As far as consenting to a search, I cannot imagine ever doing that.
 

Zgdaf

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Cops definitely do that. (Make you wait for a K-9 to sniff your around your vehicle) However, it is my understanding that this is not legal, correct me if I'm wrong.

If you are stopped for some violation, and there is no PC to search your vehicle, they can only keep you there as long as it takes to give you your citation. I'm pretty sure they cannot just make you wait, while a K-9 is brought to the scene, even though they do this all the time. As far as consenting to a search, I cannot imagine ever doing that.
This video and others goes into the law around reasonable detainment time. Also some on the canine search.

 

GarnetPild

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This video and others goes into the law around reasonable detainment time. Also some on the canine search.



Good video. Piece of shit cop, in that instance anyway. The video goes into more detail about them not being able to keep you there, even a few extra minutes, just to get a K-9 to sniff around. Didn't stop this cop though.

Truth is, many cops just do what they want and justify it with whatever bs they need to. Good example- I work in a small town. Got tailed in to work one night. Knew the cop was behind me, so I did not break any laws. We stopped at a red light. After it went green & we got through the intersection, he pulled me over. His reason? My license plate lights were "a little dim" and he was "having a hard time reading" my plate. Nevermind him being 3 feet off my bumper at that light, and my plate lights being totally normal and fine.

Another time I was tailed & lit up in the McDonalds drive through. Cop said I turned into the parking lot a little bit fast, and he wanted to make sure everything was ok.:ROFLMAO: Lots of good cops out there, doing a great job, but many shitheads too. Kind of like every other field, in that way. Difference is, a bad cop can violate your Rights and take away your freedom.
 

Zgdaf

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Good video. Piece of shit cop, in that instance anyway. The video goes into more detail about them not being able to keep you there, even a few extra minutes, just to get a K-9 to sniff around. Didn't stop this cop though.

Truth is, many cops just do what they want and justify it with whatever bs they need to. Good example- I work in a small town. Got tailed in to work one night. Knew the cop was behind me, so I did not break any laws. We stopped at a red light. After it went green & we got through the intersection, he pulled me over. His reason? My license plate lights were "a little dim" and he was "having a hard time reading" my plate. Nevermind him being 3 feet off my bumper at that light, and my plate lights being totally normal and fine.

Another time I was tailed & lit up in the McDonalds drive through. Cop said I turned into the parking lot a little bit fast, and he wanted to make sure everything was ok.:ROFLMAO: Lots of good cops out there, doing a great job, but many shitheads too. Kind of like every other field, in that way. Difference is, a bad cop can violate your Rights and take away your freedom.
About the 17 minute mark on this video he goes into time of detainment. And why 5 min as claimed by the popo is significant when he was actually detained for 16 min. US vs Sharpe SC ruling. Detainment becomes a defacto arrest.


 

America 1st

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Good video. Piece of shit cop, in that instance anyway. The video goes into more detail about them not being able to keep you there, even a few extra minutes, just to get a K-9 to sniff around. Didn't stop this cop though.

Truth is, many cops just do what they want and justify it with whatever bs they need to. Good example- I work in a small town. Got tailed in to work one night. Knew the cop was behind me, so I did not break any laws. We stopped at a red light. After it went green & we got through the intersection, he pulled me over. His reason? My license plate lights were "a little dim" and he was "having a hard time reading" my plate. Nevermind him being 3 feet off my bumper at that light, and my plate lights being totally normal and fine.

Another time I was tailed & lit up in the McDonalds drive through. Cop said I turned into the parking lot a little bit fast, and he wanted to make sure everything was ok.:ROFLMAO: Lots of good cops out there, doing a great job, but many shitheads too. Kind of like every other field, in that way. Difference is, a bad cop can violate your Rights and take away your freedom.
The whole system needs reform in the worst way.
 

America 1st

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Maybe. But it would go along way if we could erase the damage that Obama did to law-enforcement. If someone famous would step up in the black community and start a movement to begin respecting police again it would Immediately calm things down.


Doesn't stop police from going renegade tho which is just as big of a piece of the puzzle anymore.
 
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BTAvenger

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Doesn't stop police from going renegade tho which is just as big of a piece of the puzzle anymore.

The percentage of police who go “renegade” is minuscule. If the media (and lib politicians)would stop gaslighting each instance that might be questionable on the surface this country would be in a far different place.
 

America 1st

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The percentage of police who go “renegade” is minuscule. If the media (and lib politicians)would stop gaslighting each instance that might be questionable on the surface this country would be in a far different place.
Seems like way too many people have personal experience with this sorta stuff to call it minuscule. JMO of course.
 

BTAvenger

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Nah. It’s a tiny percentage. It’s just that the media blows any situation up nowadays that could possibly portray police in a negative light. Think of all the high profile cases in the past couple years. And all the massive outrage and riots etc. Now think again of how many of those actually ended up in convictions. Most were clear bullshit from the start if you had any idea what you were looking at.
 
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