kingsolomonwisdom
Elite
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2023
- Messages
- 621
Provide your top arguments for the existence of GOD aka intelligent design. This includes Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Niellists, Theists, Monotheists, and Polytheists. You can give specific arguments for your GOD('s) for fun. Also, rank them in order of most compelling to least compelling.
G Tier: God Tier status (God is inevitable and there is no more debate as this is undeniable proof of the existence of GOD and no holes in this argument exist).
S Tier (Nearly a slam dunk or mic drop arguments as at least one element that doesn't disprove it but brings up more questions than answers)
A Tier ( convincing for a vast majority of people but not the hardcore anti-theists but has a couple slight gaps in the armor)
B Tier ( Compelling for over 50% of the population but has multiple major glaring holes holes)
C Tier (Convincing for few people but has some interesting aspects to make one think).
D Tier (Straight up only convincing retards or black people but nobody else (jk jk).
F Tier (convincing to not a single soul)
G Tier:
1.) Information Theory and The Computational Problem:
a.) The DNA structure which contain bases or nucleotide bases on inside of double helix r functioning like alphabetic characters like in a written language or like 0's and 0's in a software code. It's not the physical or chemical properties of those bases, rather it's their sequential arrangement in accord with an independent code which is why we now call it a genetic code. A code requires a coder and our DNA code requires a creator of some kind. This is a true information baring system that is expressing information as it happens for building the proteins and protein machines that cells require to stay alive. You have information directing the construction of proteins and protein machines necessary for survivability. The question is where does that information come from and what kind of information is it. This is functional information and that's the information that in our experience always indicates the prior activity of intelligence. If the information is very specific and complex and operating in accord with a symbol convention then you have information that's the product of mind.
b.) Could there have been such a strand of DNA that comes about by pure random chance just pure accident that these things arise given enough times and eventually you'll end up with an evolution combined with natural selection it preserves mutations that are good and you come up with something that's designed. This fails to work because of a mathematical problem or mathematical inflation. Qe know from our experience with software code writing that the last thing you qant in a section of functional code is a series of random changes to those 0s and 1s. If that happens you'll degrade the information that's in that code, long before you'll ever generate a new software program or op system. There's a reason that changes software at random variably degrades the information before you get anything useful and new because there's so many more qays for things to go wrong to where an infinite amount of randomly changing things is going to inevitably end up as gibberish for a sequence than a functional one. To quantify this, the quantitively odds of how rare or common are the functional sequences that would make a new protein or new gene making a new protein, how rare are the functional ones compared to the none functional ones. for a short protein of 150 amino acids long, the ratio of functional to non functional sequences is about 1 to the 10 to the 77th power. There are only 10 to the 65th atoms in the Milkyway galaxy. This means that a random search for a new functional sequence is going to be like looking for one atom among 1 trillion galaxes of the size of the Milkyway. Even four billion years of history is insufficient time to solve the search problem of that magnitude. It's overwhelmingly more probable that such a search will fail then succeed in the known time of life on planet earth. This means the hypothesis that the mechanism that's producing the neq information is more likely to be false than true.
So overall it's exponentially more likely that the code behind everything in existence is more likely to be generated by intelligent design than by random chance. If you have alphabet cereal that's on the table and says John please take the trash out this morning and do not forget this time. It's much more likely that this qas a human that hand picked this sequence instead of it just being spilled accidently onto the table creating this perfect sequence by pure chance. If you see that you're going to take out the damn trash than to ignore it because you think it's just purely random chance those letters were sequenced in that way.
You would have to be incredibly biased against intelligent design behind functional information or have gone through a traumatic or emotional event to completely deny the obvious mathematical odds being insurmountable against random chance for functional information.
2.) Fulfillment of prophecy (specifically the Christian bible). Just 8 of the biblical prophecies coming to fruition is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000. He fulfilled roughly 400 biblical prophecies from the old testament. Over 2,000 biblical prophecies have come to fruition including thousands of prophecies after the death of Jesus and still more are occurring to this very day. The probability of all these prophecies being fulfilled isn't even mathematically quantifiable at this point so it's just an impossibility. No human, group of humans, or AI could've done something like this and therefore it must come from intelligent design. You have better odds of being struck by lightening than Jesus did in fulfilling just one of these prophecies. You had better odds of even just existing than all the prophecies of Jesus being fulfilled. No other religion, person (past or present), AI system, etc is even close to their/it's prophecies being fulfilled at this level.
S Tier:
1.) Contingency argument: Contingent = something exists or doesn't. Most things that exist in life are contingent: (Tree, car, moon, kittens, humans, etc) in that they didn't need to exist. Contingent things are contingent on some other thing (seed, humans, space, male and female cat/humans mating). Lastly, a group of contingent things is itself always contingent and dependent on something (Humans (parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc, sun, earth, etc. If you take the group of all contingent things that must depend on the existence of something. But is this something contingent? No, because then it would be part of the group of all contingent things. Therefore this something must be non-contingent or necessary and necessary thing cannot fail to exist and must exist. All space, time and matter seem contingent so there must be some necessary existing spaceless, timeless and immaterial entity upon which all contingent reality depends. This sounds suspiciously like GOD.
2.) Fine Tuning Argument: This is a teleological argument as it establishes God's existence through an observation of the world around us. The various constants of the initial conditions of the universe, various constants of the universe, laws of physics they have certain parameters existing where they must be within an extremely narrow range like 10 to the power of 44. So many of these things must exist in a very narrow range to support the existence embodied concours creatures. For example the cosmological constant, if you increase it ever so slightly the universe collapses in on itself, if you decrease the size ever so slightly then things expand way to far apart then atoms couldn't even form and then no life exists in those instances. So in all these constants if there's just a slight movement in one direction or the other then life ceases to exist as we know it. Essentially the Universe appears as though it was designed for life to exist. To make this more profound I'll provide a few more examples. Say there was a hypothetical scenarios where dimes covered every square inch of north America so no space exists between any dime. Then say they stacked those dimes to the moon. Now increase that amount a billion times. If I were to blindfold you and to tell you to guess where the one red dime is inside this stack your probability of locating this dime is one in 10 to the 37th Power chance. This is the same level of precision required for the strong nuclear force and rate of universe expansion and if you're just a dime in either direction then we don't get a universe that doesn't support life. It's like if you were to see someone at the poker table qin 10 hands in a row with all royal flushes every time, you'd say the game is rigged. It's highly unlikely for all these extremely improbable constants can exists simultaneously without a divine creator.
Some examples
G Tier: God Tier status (God is inevitable and there is no more debate as this is undeniable proof of the existence of GOD and no holes in this argument exist).
S Tier (Nearly a slam dunk or mic drop arguments as at least one element that doesn't disprove it but brings up more questions than answers)
A Tier ( convincing for a vast majority of people but not the hardcore anti-theists but has a couple slight gaps in the armor)
B Tier ( Compelling for over 50% of the population but has multiple major glaring holes holes)
C Tier (Convincing for few people but has some interesting aspects to make one think).
D Tier (Straight up only convincing retards or black people but nobody else (jk jk).
F Tier (convincing to not a single soul)
G Tier:
1.) Information Theory and The Computational Problem:
a.) The DNA structure which contain bases or nucleotide bases on inside of double helix r functioning like alphabetic characters like in a written language or like 0's and 0's in a software code. It's not the physical or chemical properties of those bases, rather it's their sequential arrangement in accord with an independent code which is why we now call it a genetic code. A code requires a coder and our DNA code requires a creator of some kind. This is a true information baring system that is expressing information as it happens for building the proteins and protein machines that cells require to stay alive. You have information directing the construction of proteins and protein machines necessary for survivability. The question is where does that information come from and what kind of information is it. This is functional information and that's the information that in our experience always indicates the prior activity of intelligence. If the information is very specific and complex and operating in accord with a symbol convention then you have information that's the product of mind.
b.) Could there have been such a strand of DNA that comes about by pure random chance just pure accident that these things arise given enough times and eventually you'll end up with an evolution combined with natural selection it preserves mutations that are good and you come up with something that's designed. This fails to work because of a mathematical problem or mathematical inflation. Qe know from our experience with software code writing that the last thing you qant in a section of functional code is a series of random changes to those 0s and 1s. If that happens you'll degrade the information that's in that code, long before you'll ever generate a new software program or op system. There's a reason that changes software at random variably degrades the information before you get anything useful and new because there's so many more qays for things to go wrong to where an infinite amount of randomly changing things is going to inevitably end up as gibberish for a sequence than a functional one. To quantify this, the quantitively odds of how rare or common are the functional sequences that would make a new protein or new gene making a new protein, how rare are the functional ones compared to the none functional ones. for a short protein of 150 amino acids long, the ratio of functional to non functional sequences is about 1 to the 10 to the 77th power. There are only 10 to the 65th atoms in the Milkyway galaxy. This means that a random search for a new functional sequence is going to be like looking for one atom among 1 trillion galaxes of the size of the Milkyway. Even four billion years of history is insufficient time to solve the search problem of that magnitude. It's overwhelmingly more probable that such a search will fail then succeed in the known time of life on planet earth. This means the hypothesis that the mechanism that's producing the neq information is more likely to be false than true.
So overall it's exponentially more likely that the code behind everything in existence is more likely to be generated by intelligent design than by random chance. If you have alphabet cereal that's on the table and says John please take the trash out this morning and do not forget this time. It's much more likely that this qas a human that hand picked this sequence instead of it just being spilled accidently onto the table creating this perfect sequence by pure chance. If you see that you're going to take out the damn trash than to ignore it because you think it's just purely random chance those letters were sequenced in that way.
You would have to be incredibly biased against intelligent design behind functional information or have gone through a traumatic or emotional event to completely deny the obvious mathematical odds being insurmountable against random chance for functional information.
2.) Fulfillment of prophecy (specifically the Christian bible). Just 8 of the biblical prophecies coming to fruition is 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000. He fulfilled roughly 400 biblical prophecies from the old testament. Over 2,000 biblical prophecies have come to fruition including thousands of prophecies after the death of Jesus and still more are occurring to this very day. The probability of all these prophecies being fulfilled isn't even mathematically quantifiable at this point so it's just an impossibility. No human, group of humans, or AI could've done something like this and therefore it must come from intelligent design. You have better odds of being struck by lightening than Jesus did in fulfilling just one of these prophecies. You had better odds of even just existing than all the prophecies of Jesus being fulfilled. No other religion, person (past or present), AI system, etc is even close to their/it's prophecies being fulfilled at this level.
S Tier:
1.) Contingency argument: Contingent = something exists or doesn't. Most things that exist in life are contingent: (Tree, car, moon, kittens, humans, etc) in that they didn't need to exist. Contingent things are contingent on some other thing (seed, humans, space, male and female cat/humans mating). Lastly, a group of contingent things is itself always contingent and dependent on something (Humans (parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc, sun, earth, etc. If you take the group of all contingent things that must depend on the existence of something. But is this something contingent? No, because then it would be part of the group of all contingent things. Therefore this something must be non-contingent or necessary and necessary thing cannot fail to exist and must exist. All space, time and matter seem contingent so there must be some necessary existing spaceless, timeless and immaterial entity upon which all contingent reality depends. This sounds suspiciously like GOD.
2.) Fine Tuning Argument: This is a teleological argument as it establishes God's existence through an observation of the world around us. The various constants of the initial conditions of the universe, various constants of the universe, laws of physics they have certain parameters existing where they must be within an extremely narrow range like 10 to the power of 44. So many of these things must exist in a very narrow range to support the existence embodied concours creatures. For example the cosmological constant, if you increase it ever so slightly the universe collapses in on itself, if you decrease the size ever so slightly then things expand way to far apart then atoms couldn't even form and then no life exists in those instances. So in all these constants if there's just a slight movement in one direction or the other then life ceases to exist as we know it. Essentially the Universe appears as though it was designed for life to exist. To make this more profound I'll provide a few more examples. Say there was a hypothetical scenarios where dimes covered every square inch of north America so no space exists between any dime. Then say they stacked those dimes to the moon. Now increase that amount a billion times. If I were to blindfold you and to tell you to guess where the one red dime is inside this stack your probability of locating this dime is one in 10 to the 37th Power chance. This is the same level of precision required for the strong nuclear force and rate of universe expansion and if you're just a dime in either direction then we don't get a universe that doesn't support life. It's like if you were to see someone at the poker table qin 10 hands in a row with all royal flushes every time, you'd say the game is rigged. It's highly unlikely for all these extremely improbable constants can exists simultaneously without a divine creator.
Some examples
