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How underrated is

skramer100

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Probably a little underrated. He created the first national park(Yellowstone) but he also tried to run for a third term.
 

Boxman4

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His auto is one of the better reads out there.

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Sikness23245

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Dude was way ahead of his time in more ways than one.

And yet a man of the past even in his own day.

Read "Grant" last year and this was the quote that stuck out most to me considering the political and social environment last summer:

"...but my own feelings, which had been quite jubilant on receipt of his (Lee's) letter, were quite sad and depressed. I felt like anything but rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly and had suffered so much for a cause, though that was, I believe, one of the worst for which people had ever fought, and for one that there was the least excuse."

A lot of great things about the man, but he also facilitated crony capitalism, advocated for a more globalist approach, and pushed for government run schools. He was also terrible with money and had problems with the bottle. I think it's fortunate he didn't get that third term, because he never became a politician until his second term was over. Again, many great things about him, but his many flaws probably keep him from being underrated.
 

America 1st

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And yet a man of the past even in his own day.

Read "Grant" last year and this was the quote that stuck out most to me considering the political and social environment last summer:

"...but my own feelings, which had been quite jubilant on receipt of his (Lee's) letter, were quite sad and depressed. I felt like anything but rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly and had suffered so much for a cause, though that was, I believe, one of the worst for which people had ever fought, and for one that there was the least excuse."

A lot of great things about the man, but he also facilitated crony capitalism, advocated for a more globalist approach, and pushed for government run schools. He was also terrible with money and had problems with the bottle. I think it's fortunate he didn't get that third term, because he never became a politician until his second term was over. Again, many great things about him, but his many flaws probably keep him from being underrated.
I think his personal story with the bottle and money were endearing. Typical for the time.

I see his appreciation and approach towards the war and Lee as very admirable. It's difficult to see both the past and the future and appreciate them both (and I definitely think secession was unconstitutional to say the least).

While he was left plenty to be desired in some aspects of the political arena he also accomplished quite a bit.

His globalist approach is widely considered appropriate for the time and quite different than the globalism of today.

Excellent thoughts and appreciate you sharing!
 
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Sikness23245

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I think his personal story with the bottle and money were endearing. Typical for the time.

I see his appreciation and approach towards the war and Lee as very admirable. It's difficult to see both the past in the future and appreciate them both (and I definitely think secession was unconstitutional to say the least).

While he was left plenty to be desired in some aspects of the political arena he also accomplished quite a bit.

His globalist approach is widely considered appropriate for the time and quite different than the globalism of today.

Excellent thoughts and appreciate you sharing!

I can see how those problems could be endearing to some; not only typical for the time but typical struggles for people still today. However, his money problems led to his cronyism (or maybe vice versa; they fed on each other) which led to Black Friday. That's a big strike against him for me.

My issue with his politics didn't really start until after he took his world tour after his second term. It seemed to me his focus completely changed from an "America 1st" type of approach to a more globalist type of approach. Those were the type of issues he'd realize were over his head in the past and lean on his advisers to help resolve. It's unlikely he suddenly became a man of brilliance in his later years, so that's why I think it was probably a good thing he didn't get a third term.

I'm just happy I can contribute to these threads these days! Not long ago, I'd just be lurking in @preshlock threads hoping to retain a drop of his knowledge. Plus, even the Northerners into history don't know shit about the Civil War other than "we saved the black people!" so I don't get many opportunities to talk Grant. :ROFLMAO:
 

America 1st

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I can see how those problems could be endearing to some; not only typical for the time but typical struggles for people still today. However, his money problems led to his cronyism (or maybe vice versa; they fed on each other) which led to Black Friday. That's a big strike against him for me.

My issue with his politics didn't really start until after he took his world tour after his second term. It seemed to me his focus completely changed from an "America 1st" type of approach to a more globalist type of approach. Those were the type of issues he'd realize were over his head in the past and lean on his advisers to help resolve. It's unlikely he suddenly became a man of brilliance in his later years, so that's why I think it was probably a good thing he didn't get a third term.

I'm just happy I can contribute to these threads these days! Not long ago, I'd just be lurking in @preshlock threads hoping to retain a drop of his knowledge. Plus, even the Northerners into history don't know shit about the Civil War other than "we saved the black people!" so I don't get many opportunities to talk Grant. :ROFLMAO:
You found the right northerner then because I really like your break down.

The cronyism stuff doesn't really bother me on it's face. That's the president's right to appoint people he trusts. Just wish he had been a better judge of those people.

The Black Friday events could actually be viewed as one of Grant's better moments since he actually averted a complete depression.

His advisors really warped him into a different person. Sad stuff really.

Excellent additions! Thanks again!
 

Sikness23245

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You found the right northerner then because I really like your break down.

The cronyism stuff doesn't really bother me on it's face. That's the president's right to appoint people he trusts. Just wish he had been a better judge of those people.

The Black Friday events could actually be viewed as one of Grant's better moments since he actually averted a complete depression.

His advisors really warped him into a different person. Sad stuff really.

Excellent additions! Thanks again!

No idea why, but I definitely thought you were a southerner. You having an appreciation for Grant should have been a sign lol.

My problem with his cronyism isn't that he leaned on people he thought he could trust. Everybody, especially people in a position of power, need folks like that. My problem is that once he trusted somebody, he thought there could be no wrong in them. He trusted many of the wrong people, and they got away with whatever they wanted because of their friendship with him.

That's what led to the Black Friday event. The guys who pumped the market were his friends, and, even though he did the right thing by stepping in to end the madness, he did nothing to punish them afterwards. They made out like bandits and got away with it because of his cronyism. I see the way he handled the event as a precedent for future politicians, like in '08 when banks crashed the economy, got bailed out for it, and only one nobody went to jail.

Appreciate your responses as well. Nice to hear some other opinions on the man. I've taken a mostly critical position in our conversation, but I did gain a much greater appreciation for him after reading the book. Overall, I don't think he's underrated because of his many flaws, but I do think his greatest contributions are underappreciated. Few could have held the country together during the tumultuous time he served as President like he did.
 

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