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Does the left not understand basic economics?

Sgfeer

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to answer the thread title question

tenor.gif
 

Npklee

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It’s a poison pill for the relief. They can’t stop playing politics. Msm and left went after Mitch and pubs for tying 230 repeal to the checks. And now they will do the same thing with this minimum wage. This time though the media will be critical of pubs for holding up this much needed relief.
 

Huskers2008

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100% correct

Businesses will have no choice but to pass this cost on to the consumers and while also look to cut payroll.

Obvious Lee there will need to be exceptions/thresholds/stipulations, but there is no way they are dumb enough to blanket the entire country with this $15 minimum.
 

hmt5000

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Weird thing is that keeping out illegals has driven up the wages here where I live. Most fast food joints are starting people out at $14/hr now. They are going to bring in millions of illegals who will work for $5/hr and then mandate $15/hr. Its comically insane. I honestly think they want people broke.
 

MAGA_VOL

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So my in-laws own a power sports dealership and they’re prepared to pay $15/hr, but also going to have to cut sales/service commissions as a result. In turn, many of their employees will be making less at $15/hr than they did before.

Moral of the story: libs are retards.
 

Rushie

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Weird thing is that keeping out illegals has driven up the wages here where I live. Most fast food joints are starting people out at $14/hr now. They are going to bring in millions of illegals who will work for $5/hr and then mandate $15/hr. Its comically insane. I honestly think they want people broke.
More people broke = more people dependant on government
 

CDDP

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The true minimum wage is $0. Most small businesses lean conservative and they have been destroyed by the lockdowns and now raising minimum wage will finish off many businesses. Combine this with taxes and regulations it will be a nightmare.
 

Hgredmond

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Here is the counter argument. You are already supplementing all adult minimum wage workers anyways. Why is it ok for large corporations to pay employees a s little as possible and expect tax payers pick up the tab to supplement these employees so they can actually survive through tax credits and entitlement programs. All while many of these companies pull in record profits. A low minimum wage is an indirect form of corporate welfare that transfers wealth to corporations and stockholders from the middle class and poor. Obviously raising the minimum wage is probably not the answer as small businesses will be hurt the worst while large corporations will absorb the cost and move further into automation but it is also ridiculous that many large corporations do everything possible not to pay a living wage and benefits and we the tax payers Are stuck picking up the bill.
 

Sandford’s_Finest

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The biggest issue I see personally is 30-40 year olds working minimum wage jobs that should be worked by high-school kids. Those types of jobs are not meant to be a career. I get that some people have less than ideal circumstances and have to do what is necessary to support themselves and/or their families, but a lot of people i see in these jobs have been doing it for years and seem content with remaining in their station. There seems to be no desire for upward mobility.
This is just anecdotal but I don’t think it’s limited to just my community.
 

Hgredmond

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The biggest issue I see personally is 30-40 year olds working minimum wage jobs that should be worked by high-school kids. Those types of jobs are not meant to be a career. I get that some people have less than ideal circumstances and have to do what is necessary to support themselves and/or their families, but a lot of people i see in these jobs have been doing it for years and seem content with remaining in their station. There seems to be no desire for upward mobility.
This is just anecdotal but I don’t think it’s limited to just my community.
The traditional jobs where adults with a high school education can earn a good living aka factory blue collar jobs are not as plentiful as they were 20 years ago. This is part of the issue. Do you think most 40 something would not take a better job if there was an opportunity. The issue now is more lack of opportunity in most parts of the country for low skilled workers than their willingness to do the job.
 

Sandford’s_Finest

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Do you think most 40 something would not take a better job if there was an opportunity. The issue now is more lack of opportunity in most parts of the country for low skilled workers than their willingness to do the job.
In my area, no. Specifically speaking of the fast food industry. Those employees are fine with taking my order, taking forever to get it ready, and handing me the wrong order. There are plenty of good jobs in the area as we have a number of distribution centers since we are in the middle of the state. It’s easier for these people to do a lousy job with zero accountability rather than taking a more demanding job that pays better but would hold them accountable for their work.
 

Tell_Sackett

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Here is the counter argument. You are already supplementing all adult minimum wage workers anyways. Why is it ok for large corporations to pay employees a s little as possible and expect tax payers pick up the tab to supplement these employees so they can actually survive through tax credits and entitlement programs. All while many of these companies pull in record profits. A low minimum wage is an indirect form of corporate welfare that transfers wealth to corporations and stockholders from the middle class and poor. Obviously raising the minimum wage is probably not the answer as small businesses will be hurt the worst while large corporations will absorb the cost and move further into automation but it is also ridiculous that many large corporations do everything possible not to pay a living wage and benefits and we the tax payers Are stuck picking up the bill.
I understand your point, but it just highlights the need for entitlement reform. Short term help is help... Long term help ends up as a hindrance to a potentially productive citizen. Minimum wage mandates are long term welfare. When welfare and the stigma it carried became entitlement, we severely lost our way as a country. For the last 30 years, we have allowed large swaths of illegal, low skilled workers across the border which is one of the largest forms of corporate entitlement. The jobs market is simple supply and demand and politicians rarely bring that up. They just keep opening the gate and then wonder why businesses don't pay a "living wage".

Wages would find their appropriate level if the government just stayed out of it. Raising the minimum wage provides little benefit for the bottom third. Jobs that don't require skill pay very little for a reason... they are meant to be stepping stones to a better job. Wage mandates only increase costs for all consumers and reduce the number of low skilled jobs available per capita. Businesses ultimately find a way to pass on the cost, reduce expenses, or both. If they don't, they cease to be businesses and the low skilled job pool shrinks further.
 

Hgredmond

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I understand your point, but it just highlights the need for entitlement reform. Short term help is help... Long term help ends up as a hindrance to a potentially productive citizen. Minimum wage mandates are long term welfare. When welfare and the stigma it carried became entitlement, we severely lost our way as a country. For the last 30 years, we have allowed large swaths of illegal, low skilled workers across the border which is one of the largest forms of corporate entitlement. The jobs market is simple supply and demand and politicians rarely bring that up. They just keep opening the gate and then wonder why businesses don't pay a "living wage".

Wages would find their appropriate level if the government just stayed out of it. Raising the minimum wage provides little benefit for the bottom third. Jobs that don't require skill pay very little for a reason... they are meant to be stepping stones to a better job. Wage mandates only increase costs for all consumers and reduce the number of low skilled jobs available per capita. Businesses ultimately find a way to pass on the cost, reduce expenses, or both. If they don't, they cease to be businesses and the low skilled job pool shrinks further.
While this is true the issue is the number of livable wage jobs are declining while low skill low wage jobs are the fastest growing segment in the job market. This will only continue to become a larger problem with automation. As good paying factory jobs and others like them disappear and are replaced by low skill service jobs then the wealth gap will continue to increase. I believe we are already seeing the results of this in movements like Q Antifa etc. Where people are beginning to lose faith in the institutions of this nation and are becoming angry because they are sliding down their position in society. I do not think raising the minimum wage will fix this. It will take something much more revolutionary. I don’t think universal income is it either. People will feel good about it at first but it will eventually strip them of their dignity.
 

America 1st

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Here is the counter argument. You are already supplementing all adult minimum wage workers anyways. Why is it ok for large corporations to pay employees a s little as possible and expect tax payers pick up the tab to supplement these employees so they can actually survive through tax credits and entitlement programs. All while many of these companies pull in record profits. A low minimum wage is an indirect form of corporate welfare that transfers wealth to corporations and stockholders from the middle class and poor. Obviously raising the minimum wage is probably not the answer as small businesses will be hurt the worst while large corporations will absorb the cost and move further into automation but it is also ridiculous that many large corporations do everything possible not to pay a living wage and benefits and we the tax payers Are stuck picking up the bill.
Don't be lazy and write the tax code properly.

The bigger the value of any company then the more tax breaks you can lure them with.

Let the big corporations continue to get their tax breaks IF they meet certain standards for pay, family leave, benefits, ect.

This isn't difficult. Corps should be broken into brackets the same way individual earners are currently.
 
Last edited:

GatorOK

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Does anyone know or have an argument other than muh feelings on why people think this is a good idea?
 

VanceDander

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Does anyone know or have an argument other than muh feelings on why people think this is a good idea?
Several.

- It would significantly lower the poverty rate while reducing taxpayer spending on public welfare programs by nearly one-third. (https://equitablegrowth.org/working-papers/minimum-wages-and-family-incomes/)

- There’s no evidence tying minimum wage increases to job losses either in the state level increases in the period from 1979 to 2013 (https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/134/3/1405/5484905) nor more recently in several US cities (https://irle.berkeley.edu/the-new-wave-of-local-minimum-wage-policies-evidence-from-six-cities/)

- In fact, having a lower minimum wage has not created more jobs in the US as compared to other similar economies with higher minimum wages (https://equitablegrowth.org/the-emp...nimum-wage-lessons-from-other-rich-countries/)
 

lucio

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So if you FORCE anyone to pay 15 bucks an hour small businesses will have to lay off and raise rates on everything, right? When i was younger you went out and earned your pay rate, it wasnt given to you by government Beaurecrats. Is this stupidity or just more socialist government control?
They do but they don’t care
 

Hgredmond

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Don't be lazy and write the tax code properly.

The bigger the value of any company then the more tax breaks you can lure them with.

Let the big corporations continue to get their tax breaks IF they meet certain standards for pay, family leave, benefits, ect.

This isn't difficult. Corps should be broken into brackets the same way individual earners are currently.
I agree this is probably the most logical way.
 

America 1st

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Several.

- It would significantly lower the poverty rate while reducing taxpayer spending on public welfare programs by nearly one-third. (https://equitablegrowth.org/working-papers/minimum-wages-and-family-incomes/)

- There’s no evidence tying minimum wage increases to job losses either in the state level increases in the period from 1979 to 2013 (https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/134/3/1405/5484905) nor more recently in several US cities (https://irle.berkeley.edu/the-new-wave-of-local-minimum-wage-policies-evidence-from-six-cities/)

- In fact, having a lower minimum wage has not created more jobs in the US as compared to other similar economies with higher minimum wages (https://equitablegrowth.org/the-emp...nimum-wage-lessons-from-other-rich-countries/)
Why not link the CCP for your sources next time? I mean goodness...
 

MAGAMAYNE

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It’s a human right O Pee. Don’t you know 15 dollar minimum wage, iPhone, internet, Netflix, Escalade with spinners and blacked out windows ... all basic human rights. Show some compassion.
Glad their baby momma ain't charging rent or else they couldn't afford all that
 

America 1st

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Would appreciate any alternative fact-based economic analyses you care to provide. Thanks in advance.
As soon as you provide some fact based analysis I'll consider wasting more time on you.
 

America 1st

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