• Pat Flood (@rebarcock) passed away 9/21/25. Pat played a huge role in encouraging the devolopmemt of this site and donated the very first dollar to get it started. Check the thread at the top of the board for the obituary and please feel free to pay your respects there. I am going to get all the content from that thread over to his family so they can see how many people really cared for Pat outside of what they ever knew. Pat loved to tell stories and always wanted everyone else to tell stories. I think a great way we can honor Pat is to tell a story in his thread (also pinned at the top of the board).

Master Thread Dance Your Cares Away/Fraggle/Law Abiding Citizens

Master Threads
Cincinattus91 said:
Are you seriously disputing TR was a Progressive? Lol

From our great friends @ the Heritage Foundation

www.heritage.org

Theodore Roosevelt: Progressive Crusader

Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States (1901–1909), was the youngest and arguably most energetic man ever to fill that office.
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org

"Because these rights were grounded in a permanent view of human nature as essentially self-interested, Roosevelt concluded that the whole idea of natural rights was scientifically wrong and morally obsolete. Evolution meant that there was no such thing as a fixed human nature; human beings could progress beyond their selfish individualism. Roosevelt’s goal was to move Americans beyond purely “legal” justice toward a higher, more “ethical” justice where citizens thought less about their individual rights and more about rights “developed in duty.”

“The prime problem of our nation is to get the right type of good citizenship, and, to get it, we must have progress, and our public men must be genuinely progressive.”
-TR

TR- "I'm a Progressive, a founder of American Progressivism"
Cincinattus- "TR was a Progressive"
Hoosier- "Sit the next few plays out"

Has the ghost of Myles Brand infected your brain comrade?

He literally ran as a 3rd party in 1912 ensuring Woodrow Wilson's "victory" and ostensibly, explicity described himself as a Progressive
Click to expand...
I’d recommend reading this book on Teddy

Amazon product ASIN 1621572641
Is also recommend sources other than Heritsge, National Review, Conservative Thinker or Lincoln Project
 
George Washington was a “progressive” too…

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality”.
 
IRL is back in session tonight, after a break for them getting sick with covid.

(Edit to add...WITH KASH PATEL!)





hes-back-wedding-crashers.gif
 
Last edited:
America 1st said:
George Washington was a “progressive” too…

“As Mankind becomes more liberal, they will be more apt to allow that all those who conduct themselves as worthy members of the community are equally entitled to the protections of civil government. I hope ever to see America among the foremost nations of justice and liberality”.
Click to expand...
Thanks Mitt.
 
Hoosier in Mad Town said:
I’d recommend reading this book on Teddy

Amazon product ASIN 1621572641
Is also recommend sources other than Heritsge, National Review, Conservative Thinker or Lincoln Project
Click to expand...
Would you recommend other sources than old Teddy himself?

Here's highlights from his "New Nationalism" Speech in 1919 where he lays out his "conservative" vision (Hilariously and alarmingly linked on the Barry "Conservative" Obama's website...note OBama not Goldwater)

"This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary."

How'd we get the federal income tax? Thanks in no small part to conservative TR

"Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective-a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate."

Conservative on interventionsim? LOL



"A word of special warning to my fellow citizens who are as PROGRESSIVE as I hope I am. I want them to keep up their interest in our international affairs; and I want them also continually to remember Uncle Sam’s interests abroad"

Problems on the Farm? Conservative Teddy has the answer...the DepartmentS of Agriculture!!

"In particular, there are strong reasons why the Departments of Agriculture of the various states, the United States Department of Agriculture, and the agricultural colleges and experiment stations should extend their work to cover all phases of farm life, instead of limiting themselves, as they have far too often limited themselves in the past, solely to the question of the production of crops"

Private Property? Yikes!

"We are face to face with new conceptions of the relations of property to human welfare, chiefly because certain advocates of the rights of property as against the rights of men have been pushing their claims too far. The man who wrongly holds that every human right is secondary to his profit must now give way to the advocate of human welfare, who rightly maintains that every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it."

But there's more:

"But I think we may go still further. The right to regulate the use of wealth in the public interest is universally admitted. Let us admit also the right to regulate the terms and conditions of labor, which is the chief element of wealth, directly in the interest of the common good"

Teddy, what else should we do my friend?

"We need comprehensive workman’s compensation acts, both State and national laws to regulate child labor and work for women, and, especially, we need in our common schools not merely education in book-learning, but also practical training for daily life and work. We need to enforce better sanitary conditions for our workers and to extend the use of safety appliances for workers in industry and commerce, both within and between the States."

Not too much tho, ole Ted is a man of restraint,

"I do not ask for the over centralization; but I do ask that we work in a spirit of broad and far-reaching nationalism where we work for what concerns our people as a whole"

But then again,

"The National Government belongs to the whole American people, and where the whole American people are interested, that interest can be guarded effectively only by the National Government. The betterment which we seek must be accomplished, I believe, mainly through the National Government."

"The New Nationalism puts the national need before sectional or personal advantage"

"This New Nationalism regards the executive power as the steward of the public welfare. It demands of the judiciary that it shall be interested primarily in human welfare rather than in property"

Centralization of power, international intervention, executive strength, regulatory expansion and federal income tax = Conservative Crusader?

You can almost sense he knows this is flagrantly Un-American and does his rhetorical best to reel the Republican, Agrairian, self-respecting /American into Progressivism. Unfortunately, it worked
 
Last edited:
Cincinattus91 said:
Would you recommend other sources than old Teddy himself?

Here's highlights from his "New Nationalism" Speech in 1919 where he lays out his "conservative" vision (Hilariously and alarmingly linked on the Barry "Conservative" Obama's website...note OBama not Goldwater)

"This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary."

How'd we get the federal income tax? Thanks in no small part to conservative TR

"Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective-a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate."

Conservative on interventionsim? LOL



"A word of special warning to my fellow citizens who are as PROGRESSIVE as I hope I am. I want them to keep up their interest in our international affairs; and I want them also continually to remember Uncle Sam’s interests abroad"

Problems on the Farm? Conservative Teddy has the answer...the DepartmentS of Agriculture!!

"In particular, there are strong reasons why the Departments of Agriculture of the various states, the United States Department of Agriculture, and the agricultural colleges and experiment stations should extend their work to cover all phases of farm life, instead of limiting themselves, as they have far too often limited themselves in the past, solely to the question of the production of crops"

Private Property? Yikes!

"We are face to face with new conceptions of the relations of property to human welfare, chiefly because certain advocates of the rights of property as against the rights of men have been pushing their claims too far. The man who wrongly holds that every human right is secondary to his profit must now give way to the advocate of human welfare, who rightly maintains that every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it."

But there's more:

"But I think we may go still further. The right to regulate the use of wealth in the public interest is universally admitted. Let us admit also the right to regulate the terms and conditions of labor, which is the chief element of wealth, directly in the interest of the common good"

Teddy, what else should we do my friend?

"We need comprehensive workman’s compensation acts, both State and national laws to regulate child labor and work for women, and, especially, we need in our common schools not merely education in book-learning, but also practical training for daily life and work. We need to enforce better sanitary conditions for our workers and to extend the use of safety appliances for workers in industry and commerce, both within and between the States."

Not too much tho, ole Ted is a man of restrain,

"I do not ask for the over centralization; but I do ask that we work in a spirit of broad and far-reaching nationalism where we work for what concerns our people as a whole"

But then again,

"The National Government belongs to the whole American people, and where the whole American people are interested, that interest can be guarded effectively only by the National Government. The betterment which we seek must be accomplished, I believe, mainly through the National Government."

"The New Nationalism puts the national need before sectional or personal advantage"

"This New Nationalism regards the executive power as the steward of the public welfare. It demands of the judiciary that it shall be interested primarily in human welfare rather than in property"

Centralization of power, international intervention, executive strength, regulatory expansion and federal income tax = Conservative Crusader?

You can almost sense he knows this is flagrantly Un-American and does his rhetorical best to reel the Republican, Agrairian, self-respecting /American into Progressivism. Unfortunately, it worked
Click to expand...
I would look at his policies.

He broke up monopoles including the railroads. Who was the family that owned the railroad? I forget.

He built up the military and coined the term “peach through strength” that Trump effectively mimicked.

He believed in securing real estate, particularly for national defense.

At his core, TR was conservative—a sensible problem-solver who wanted to increase the political power of the American people so that they could topple the “invisible government” (a phrase he coined) of party bosses, corporate lobbyists and Robber Baron plutocrats who thrived during his generation.

He despised Wilson. That’s why he ran against him.

He was a populist

He certainly wasn’t a progressive in the sense of how that term has been commandeered by today’s radical left. But that takes nuance and contextual analysis and we are still learning how to do that ITT
 
A source close to California Gov. Gavin Newsom today told The Defender the governor experienced an adverse reaction to the Moderna COVID vaccine he received Oct. 27.
The source, who asked not to be identified, said Newsom’s symptoms were similar to those associated with Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS), a known side effect of many vaccines.

GBS is a neurological disorder in which the body’s immune system mistakenly attacks part of its peripheral nervous system — the network of nerves located outside of the brain and spinal cord — and can range from a very mild case with brief weakness to paralysis to leaving the person unable to breathe independently.

The governor has not been seen in public since he was photographed Oct. 27 getting his COVID booster.


On Oct. 29, Newsom’s office issued a statement referring to unspecified “family obligations” as the reason the governor canceled his scheduled appearances, including his planned meetings at the global COP 26 climate conference in Glasgow, Scotland.

A local ABC News outlet reported that when “the surprising announcement was made,” a spokesperson said Newsom planned to participate virtually in the climate conference. However, Newsom’s name was removed from the schedule and he did not participate.

The Defender reached out to Newsom’s office today by phone and email, but the office did not respond before publication.

According to Fox News, Newsom’s wife, Jennifer Siebel Newsom, on Sunday tweeted — then quickly deleted — a message urging people to “stop hating” while her husband has been out of the public eye.

Jennifer Siebel Newsom's tweet
Commenting on the situation, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., chairman of Children’s Health Defense, today said he “prays for Newsom’s family” and wishes him a quick recovery.

Kennedy added:
“However, if it’s true the governor has suffered debilitating neurological injuries following vaccination, it raises grave ethical questions about his seemingly dishonest efforts to conceal his injuries while implementing aggressive policies to force the children and working people of California to endure similar risks.”
Newsom has been an outspoken advocate of COVID vaccines and mandates. On Oct. 1, he announced California’s schoolchildren will be required to get the COVID vaccine once it is fully approved by the FDA. It’s the first such mandate in the country.

In a Nov. 3 press release, the governor’s office said California was launching a “robust” vaccination program for 5- to 11-year-olds. The governor has allocated more than 1.2 million vaccines for the 5-11 age group and is setting up 4,000 vaccine sites throughout the state.
According to Times of San Diego, Newsome got the Johnson & Johnson (J&J) COVID vaccine in April 2021 when his age group became eligible. In July, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration added a warning to the J&J COVID vaccine noting the vaccine had been linked to GBS.

The latest data from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System show that between Dec. 14, 2020, and Oct. 29, 2021, there were 705 reports of GBS following COVID vaccines, with 41% of cases attributed to Pfizer, 31% to Moderna and 28% to J&J.

In April, The Defender reported on a teen who was diagnosed with GBS after his first dose of a COVID vaccine. And last week, The Defender reported on a 63-year-old cancer survivor diagnosed with GBS after her second dose of the Pfizer vaccine.

GBS is included as a possible risk for many vaccines including Adacel, Afluria, Engerix-B, Fluarix, Flulaval, FluMist, Fluzone, Gardasil/Gardasil 9, Havrix, Menactra, Menomune, MMR-II, PedvaxHIB, Pneumovax-23, ProQuad, Recombivax, Tenivac, Vaqta and Varivax.

Since 1992, the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program has paid approximately $500 million to 1,450 victims of post-vaccination GBS, The Defender reported.

The Defender (Cloudfare has now taken the site down) Archived Article
 
Cincinattus91 said:
Would you recommend other sources than old Teddy himself?

Here's highlights from his "New Nationalism" Speech in 1919 where he lays out his "conservative" vision (Hilariously and alarmingly linked on the Barry "Conservative" Obama's website...note OBama not Goldwater)

"This, I know, implies a policy of a far more active governmental interference with social and economic conditions in this country than we have yet had, but I think we have got to face the fact that such an increase in governmental control is now necessary."

How'd we get the federal income tax? Thanks in no small part to conservative TR

"Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and in another tax which is far more easily collected and far more effective-a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate."

Conservative on interventionsim? LOL



"A word of special warning to my fellow citizens who are as PROGRESSIVE as I hope I am. I want them to keep up their interest in our international affairs; and I want them also continually to remember Uncle Sam’s interests abroad"

Problems on the Farm? Conservative Teddy has the answer...the DepartmentS of Agriculture!!

"In particular, there are strong reasons why the Departments of Agriculture of the various states, the United States Department of Agriculture, and the agricultural colleges and experiment stations should extend their work to cover all phases of farm life, instead of limiting themselves, as they have far too often limited themselves in the past, solely to the question of the production of crops"

Private Property? Yikes!

"We are face to face with new conceptions of the relations of property to human welfare, chiefly because certain advocates of the rights of property as against the rights of men have been pushing their claims too far. The man who wrongly holds that every human right is secondary to his profit must now give way to the advocate of human welfare, who rightly maintains that every man holds his property subject to the general right of the community to regulate its use to whatever degree the public welfare may require it."

But there's more:

"But I think we may go still further. The right to regulate the use of wealth in the public interest is universally admitted. Let us admit also the right to regulate the terms and conditions of labor, which is the chief element of wealth, directly in the interest of the common good"

Teddy, what else should we do my friend?

"We need comprehensive workman’s compensation acts, both State and national laws to regulate child labor and work for women, and, especially, we need in our common schools not merely education in book-learning, but also practical training for daily life and work. We need to enforce better sanitary conditions for our workers and to extend the use of safety appliances for workers in industry and commerce, both within and between the States."

Not too much tho, ole Ted is a man of restrain,

"I do not ask for the over centralization; but I do ask that we work in a spirit of broad and far-reaching nationalism where we work for what concerns our people as a whole"

But then again,

"The National Government belongs to the whole American people, and where the whole American people are interested, that interest can be guarded effectively only by the National Government. The betterment which we seek must be accomplished, I believe, mainly through the National Government."

"The New Nationalism puts the national need before sectional or personal advantage"

"This New Nationalism regards the executive power as the steward of the public welfare. It demands of the judiciary that it shall be interested primarily in human welfare rather than in property"

Centralization of power, international intervention, executive strength, regulatory expansion and federal income tax = Conservative Crusader?

You can almost sense he knows this is flagrantly Un-American and does his rhetorical best to reel the Republican, Agrairian, self-respecting /American into Progressivism. Unfortunately, it worked
Click to expand...
He was @America 1sting long before the phrase was coined.

I know yore trolling about that being Un-American but it’s really a shame we’ve gotten to the point where the preamble is even trolling material.

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Just imagine if the patriots in Valley Forge or that stormed the beaches of Normandy hadn’t put their sense of nationalism before “personal advantage”…
 
Hoosier in Mad Town said:
I would look at his policies.

He broke up monopoles including the railroads. Who was the family that owned the railroad? I forget.

He built up the military and coined the term “peach through strength” that Trump effectively mimicked.

He believed in securing real estate, particularly for national defense.

At his core, TR was conservative—a sensible problem-solver who wanted to increase the political power of the American people so that they could topple the “invisible government” (a phrase he coined) of party bosses, corporate lobbyists and Robber Baron plutocrats who thrived during his generation.

He despised Wilson. That’s why he ran against him.

He was a populist

He certainly wasn’t a progressive in the sense of how that term has been commandeered by today’s radical left. But that takes nuance and contextual analysis and we are still learning how to do that ITT
Click to expand...
LMAO it takes nuance

It takes nuance and common sense to realize the anti trust moves we're simply picking winners and losers. In hindsight, they clearly weren't aimed at taking down corporate power

The Harrimans made out just fine

He busted the Harriman railroads in favor of the JP Morgan railroads

The parallels to Trump are strong....and that's not a compliment

People in this thread can look at the history and Tr's own policies and speeches and realize the self described "Progressive" was indeed a "Progressive"
 
America 1st said:
He was @America 1sting long before the phrase was coined.

I know yore trolling about that being Un-American but it’s really a shame we’ve gotten to the point where the preamble is even trolling material.

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Just imagine if the patriots in Valley Forge or that stormed the beaches of Normandy hadn’t put their sense of nationalism before “personal advantage”…
Click to expand...
Teddy was federal American government first, no different than Trump or the GOP

That isn't populist babe

America 1st has determined the preamble to be evidence for Progressivism.....interesting

I thought we we're saying TR wasn't a Progressive but now we are saying he is a Progressive as was America's founding

Wow!

The preamble to the Constitution which aimed to put a stranglehold on federal power or enable it run every part of our lives as it does now?

Progressivism is Collectivism which is centralization and it has been the default philopsohy of the federal government for the better part of a century and explains our current predicament

We want nuance? Let me give you some high grade nuance

Althought Presidents have been effectively controlled by hostile interest many we're basically tricked into some big moves they later regretted. TR may have wanted a strong and healthy nation, but he may have been tricked and manipulated into policies and rhetoric that favored the very people he was trying to combat

Even Woodrow Wilson saw the light and regretted the Fed, saying, "I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

Woodrow Wilson said that ^^^
 
Last edited:
America 1st said:
He was @America 1sting long before the phrase was coined.

I know yore trolling about that being Un-American but it’s really a shame we’ve gotten to the point where the preamble is even trolling material.

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Just imagine if the patriots in Valley Forge or that stormed the beaches of Normandy hadn’t put their sense of nationalism before “personal advantage”…
Click to expand...
Commies quote the general welfare clause to pay for addadicktome procedures for trannies.
 

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