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Are Christians Under Law ?

Joined
Apr 24, 2024
Messages
43
Are Christians under the Mosaic Law ?

The foundation of Christianity starts with the descendants of Abraham the Israelites.
They were given very specific and burdensome laws that was designed not only to teach humans a code of conduct but also furnish rituals and ordinances that would prefigure Christs teachings and Christian principles.

After the observance of this law (Mosaic Law) was rendered obsolete by Christ and replaced with a new covenant, what remained for Christians is the principles on which the Mosaic law is build on.

The prophetic infrastructure of the Mosaic law and it's history is what distinguishes Christ from unsubstantiated prophets such as Mohamed or religion such as Hinduism which is based on philosophical, and cultural concepts.

Although it could be argued that Christians are under God's law because there is an overlapping of principles and necessary boundaries that all humans are subject to, the Apostle Paul explained that the Mosaic was not required of Christians because they were under the principle of love.
The law was required not only as a tutor leading to Christ but also an example of how loving individuals should behave.

We know from experience that our current legal system does not work since every contingencies can never be accounted for and that a malicious person will always find loopholes in a written inflexible law.

On the other hand a loving and caring person will always act with the proper motivation and does not need to be told to abstain from stealing, lying, cheating or murdering his neighbor.

To sum it up, Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law but rather under the superior law of love.

••••• short Bibliography of related texts.

• Jer 31:31 “...days are coming,” declares Yahweh, “ I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah"

• Gal 3:13 "Christ liberated us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us..."

• Heb 8:6 ...Christ is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. Heb 7:12 ...there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

• 1 Tim 1:9-10 ... law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10. and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching..."

• Gal 5:18 ... if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Gal 4:5 ...that we might receive the adoption as sons.
 

Rva

Was in the original thread from day one trophy 🏆
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I prefer deism, ignosticism, agnosticism, atheism and anti theism - I am personally fiercely anti theist, as I'm a person that spots the flaws in everything. I have a 'glass is always half empty' mindset, likely due to my emotionally abusive asian upbringing of negative reinforcement only.
If only those were the kind of things that would get you sex with a woman
 

fschmidt

Poster
Joined
Mar 20, 2021
Messages
537
Jesus was a good guy, but Paul was an ignorant prick who presumably didn't know Hebrew which is why he said such bullshit. There is no concept of "the law" in the Old Testament, and the Hebrew that is mistranslated as "the law" is "ha-torah" which means something like "the teaching". And clearly Paul had zero understanding of the teaching of the Old Testament.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2024
Messages
43
I prefer deism, ignosticism, agnosticism, atheism and anti theism - I am personally fiercely anti theist, as I'm a person that spots the flaws in everything. I have a 'glass is always half empty' mindset, likely due to my emotionally abusive asian upbringing of negative reinforcement only.
So... is deism, ignosticism, agnosticism, atheism and anti theism flawless ?
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2024
Messages
43
Jesus was a good guy, but Paul was an ignorant prick who presumably didn't know Hebrew which is why he said such bullshit. There is no concept of "the law" in the Old Testament, and the Hebrew that is mistranslated as "the law" is "ha-torah" which means something like "the teaching". And clearly Paul had zero understanding of the teaching of the Old Testament.
"And clearly Paul had zero understanding of the teaching of the Old Testament."

If that was the case why did Christ choose him as Apotles to the nations ?
 

TheResister

Elite
Joined
Sep 22, 2023
Messages
710
Are Christians under the Mosaic Law ?

The foundation of Christianity starts with the descendants of Abraham the Israelites.
They were given very specific and burdensome laws that was designed not only to teach humans a code of conduct but also furnish rituals and ordinances that would prefigure Christs teachings and Christian principles.

After the observance of this law (Mosaic Law) was rendered obsolete by Christ and replaced with a new covenant, what remained for Christians is the principles on which the Mosaic law is build on.

The prophetic infrastructure of the Mosaic law and it's history is what distinguishes Christ from unsubstantiated prophets such as Mohamed or religion such as Hinduism which is based on philosophical, and cultural concepts.

Although it could be argued that Christians are under God's law because there is an overlapping of principles and necessary boundaries that all humans are subject to, the Apostle Paul explained that the Mosaic was not required of Christians because they were under the principle of love.
The law was required not only as a tutor leading to Christ but also an example of how loving individuals should behave.

We know from experience that our current legal system does not work since every contingencies can never be accounted for and that a malicious person will always find loopholes in a written inflexible law.

On the other hand a loving and caring person will always act with the proper motivation and does not need to be told to abstain from stealing, lying, cheating or murdering his neighbor.

To sum it up, Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law but rather under the superior law of love.

••••• short Bibliography of related texts.

• Jer 31:31 “...days are coming,” declares Yahweh, “ I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah"

• Gal 3:13 "Christ liberated us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us..."

• Heb 8:6 ...Christ is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. Heb 7:12 ...there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

• 1 Tim 1:9-10 ... law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10. and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching..."

• Gal 5:18 ... if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Gal 4:5 ...that we might receive the adoption as sons.

I doubt that this is the place for this discussion, but maybe you had better rethink your position.

1) The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is written to, for and about a people called Israel

2) Both the Old and New Covenants belong to those people called Israel:

"4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, (that's old and new ) and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen" Romans 9: 4 and 5

The Bible is not a multicultural book. Anyone that reads the entire chapters of what you quote can see you are taking it out of context. And, exactly whose words are they?
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2024
Messages
43
No, the point is they do not adhere to man made notions of divinity.
That is true, but arn't these .ism's just replacing one extreme with another and are they not still only man made hypothesis ?
Even I can see the flaws in their premises, how much more for a person that sees flaws in everything do so.

The problem is not that religions are organised it is that they are organised according to man made criteria instead of following, as they falsely claim to do, God's direction.

I think that you would find that the Bible is in stark contrast to man made religion and that it would be difficult for you to discover any flaws in it.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2024
Messages
43
I doubt that this is the place for this discussion, but maybe you had better rethink your position.

1) The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is written to, for and about a people called Israel

2) Both the Old and New Covenants belong to those people called Israel:

"4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, (that's old and new ) and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen" Romans 9: 4 and 5

The Bible is not a multicultural book. Anyone that reads the entire chapters of what you quote can see you are taking it out of context. And, exactly whose words are they?
Your asking me to rethink my position?
What position are you referring to ?

"The entire Bible ..., for and about a people called Israel"
Mar 13:10 ...The gospel must first be preached to "ALL" the nations.

2"Both the Old and New Covenants belong to those people called Israel"
Rev 5:9 ...purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

"you are taking it out of context"
Can you give an example ?
 

TheResister

Elite
Joined
Sep 22, 2023
Messages
710
Your asking me to rethink my position?
What position are you referring to ?

"The entire Bible ..., for and about a people called Israel"
Mar 13:10 ...The gospel must first be preached to "ALL" the nations.

2"Both the Old and New Covenants belong to those people called Israel"
Rev 5:9 ...purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

"you are taking it out of context"
Can you give an example ?
I don't need to reinvent the wheel. Here is your reply (if you're seriously expecting one):

 
Joined
Apr 24, 2024
Messages
43
I don't need to reinvent the wheel. Here is your reply (if you're seriously expecting one):

I thank you for the insightful comments you struggled to make and the scriptures used to substantiate them. I recognize a learned man when I see one and enjoy a pleasant walk across the garden path as much as the next person. All the best.
 

Mungri

Poster
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May 7, 2024
Messages
174
That is true, but arn't these .ism's just replacing one extreme with another and are they not still only man made hypothesis ?
Even I can see the flaws in their premises, how much more for a person that sees flaws in everything do so.

The problem is not that religions are organised it is that they are organised according to man made criteria instead of following, as they falsely claim to do, God's direction.

I think that you would find that the Bible is in stark contrast to man made religion and that it would be difficult for you to discover any flaws in it.
Nope, both the bible and quran are full of flaws that I notice.

Primarily - explain to me how did god make 'light' before creating the 'sun and the stars'?
 

TheResister

Elite
Joined
Sep 22, 2023
Messages
710
Nope, both the bible and quran are full of flaws that I notice.

Primarily - explain to me how did god make 'light' before creating the 'sun and the stars'?
Just because you don't get the answer you want doesn't make the Bible flawed. Additionally, man wrote the Bible and is limited by the words in their vocabulary. A flaw (sic) may just be something that is the fault of an author or someone that translated the Bible into whatever language you read it in.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2024
Messages
43
Nope, both the bible and quran are full of flaws that I notice.

Primarily - explain to me how did god make 'light' before creating the 'sun and the stars'?
Hi,
That is a good question.

• Day 0 : Pre-earth 6 day creation.
Universe, including Suns, stars and planet created.
Earth formless and waste( already created)
No time is revealed.

The next creative "days" viewed from earth's perspective.
• Day one:
Division Light
The mechanism directing day/night cycle put in place, but not visible from earth due to heavy a covering.
• Day Two
Division water /earth
• Day Three
Vegetation
• Day Four
Luminaries (that were already created) become "visible" from earth's perspective.
How this is done is not explained, possibly involving atmospheric engineering.
Although no one can corroborate this account, the important thing is that it cannot be contested.

There are three things to keep in mind when trying to understand the Bible.
First it not a science text book.
Second, at times it can be cryptic, literal, figurative or even miss-translated.
Third, only a relatively small number of text can be understood without reciprocity of other texts, with the Bible's narrative, God's plan or His character.

This might seem for many too cumbersome a path to take, but that is the way God planned it.
The fact is there is plenty of leeway to twist God's word or to find fault with it.
That too is planned.

Your question on the other hand is legitimate, the above answer is a simple explanation, the whole issue is more intricate .
 

Sivat

Poster
Joined
May 14, 2024
Messages
28
Are Christians under the Mosaic Law ?
Of course, if they feel like playing into that particular cult game.

The foundation of Christianity starts with the descendants of Abraham the Israelites.
They were given very specific and burdensome laws that was designed not only to teach humans a code of conduct but also furnish rituals and ordinances that would prefigure Christs teachings and Christian principles.
Laws given & designed by whom?

Rituals = 1. a religious or solemn ceremony consisting of a series of actions performed according to a prescribed order. 2. the prescribed order of performing a ceremony, especially one characteristic of a particular religion or church. 3. a series of actions or type of behavior regularly and invariably followed by someone. 4. relating to or done as a religious or solemn rite. 5. (of an action) arising from convention or habit.

Ordinances = 1. a piece of legislation enacted by a municipal authority. 2. an authoritative order; a decree. 3. a prescribed religious rite.

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever why a God would ever require establishing human made doctrines and hierarchical human institutions to teach, impose and enforce anything on God's behalf.

God has nothing to do with the christian cults. Anyone claiming otherwise has succumbed to indoctrination or simply lying.

This type of shit is fundamental of cults.

After the observance of this law (Mosaic Law) was rendered obsolete by Christ and replaced with a new covenant, what remained for Christians is the principles on which the Mosaic law is build on.
Bollocks.

The prophetic infrastructure of the Mosaic law and it's history is what distinguishes Christ from unsubstantiated prophets such as Mohamed or religion such as Hinduism which is based on philosophical, and cultural concepts.
There is no real distinction between any of the above.

Although it could be argued that Christians are under God's law because there is an overlapping of principles and necessary boundaries that all humans are subject to, the Apostle Paul explained that the Mosaic was not required of Christians because they were under the principle of love.
The law was required not only as a tutor leading to Christ but also an example of how loving individuals should behave.
Apostle Paul, was a mere mortal human.

No law is required to know good from evil.
Christian cultists are shameless virtue signaling hypocrites of the worst kind.

By imposing these human made laws under false Godly pretenses only robs humanity of truly learning from direct experience.

We know from experience that our current legal system does not work since every contingencies can never be accounted for and that a malicious person will always find loopholes in a written inflexible law.
How is that different than mosaic laws?

On the other hand a loving and caring person will always act with the proper motivation and does not need to be told to abstain from stealing, lying, cheating or murdering his neighbor.
Correct.
No mosaic law covenant and no biblical doctrines are required.

To sum it up, Christians are no longer under the Mosaic law but rather under the superior law of love.
The what? Superior law of love huh? Did you make that up?

••••• short Bibliography of related texts.

• Jer 31:31 “...days are coming,” declares Yahweh, “ I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah"
Yahweh? A mortal human?

• Gal 3:13 "Christ liberated us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us..."
If so, who imposed this superior law of love and by what authority?

• Heb 8:6 ...Christ is the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. Heb 7:12 ...there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
A mortal human trickster dictating laws other humans must adhere to.

• 1 Tim 1:9-10 ... law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10. and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching..."
What is a righteous person?

Person, from Latin - Persona, meaning an actor's mask, a character in a play.

• Gal 5:18 ... if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Gal 4:5 ...that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Who defines what being led by this spirit is?
 
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