Which do you believe should be the highest priority in addressing immigration issues? 🛂

[TFSF]

 

[Jake Broe Stan]

Border security since I couldn’t vote for all.

We need more people in this country.

Hopefully this thread doesn’t get ruined with conspiracy theories about “white replacement”.

 

[imprimis]

Close the borders.

 

[TopHook]

Stopping and deporting

 

[Jtrain80]

Close borders first.

 

[STMF2X]

 

[TopHook]

Well we know one autistic retard on this board.

 

[TheResister]

Shutting down the border without creating an Orwellian nightmare is impossible. To stop the flow requires a solution that doesn't fit on a bumper sticker.

ONE of the top eight things that you would have to do is encourage businesses to hire an all American staff. If they want to hire foreigners, great. But, if they are offered substantial tax cuts as incentives, ONE of those incentives would be hiring a workforce of Americans.

 

[Joe King]

Shutting down the border without creating an Orwellian nightmare is impossible.

How so?

All they gotta do is Enact severe penalties for crossing illegally and to hire the man power to effectively patrol the border.

Also need to have it so that any asylum seekers must prove in Court that they actually need asylum. No proof for their claim? Back they go!


Only a true idiot would think we need millions more people in the country in such a short time frame. We've imported over 8 million people in the past two years. We don't even have 38 States with 8 million in population.

 

[MVTPatriot]

Other

Shoot on site

 

[TheResister]

How so?

All they gotta do is Enact severe penalties for crossing illegally and to hire the man power to effectively patrol the border.

Also need to have it so that any asylum seekers must prove in Court that they actually need asylum. No proof for their claim? Back they go!


Only a true idiot would think we need millions more people in the country in such a short time frame. We've imported over 8 million people in the past two years. We don't even have 38 States with 8 million in population.

Jake was the one who said we need more, so I'll forgive you for the idiot remark.

Thomas Jefferson once observed that ""The natural progress of things is for liberty to yeild, (sic) and government to gain ground."

The plain and simple truth is that the American people built the greatest nation in the annals of history without building a wall AND without a statute dealing with improper entry. That law was passed in 1929. How, between 1776 and 1929 ( a century and a half) did we build a nation from nothing to the greatest nation in history? You have your solution; I have mine. Mine won't fit on a bumper sticker. You are, however, entitled to know the COSTS associated with your solution:

1) Trying to man the border means having LEOs protect private property which means that they can trespass over your property to pursue so - called illegal aliens. I'm sure you don't see a problem there until they apply the principle to any potential lawbreaker AND then the LEOs trespass on your land to do an illegal search, but claim they are pursuing someone who MIGHT be on your property illegally

2) There is the matter of the Constitution Free Zone. Any area within 100 miles of the border is designated a Constitution Free Zone and your unalienable Rights don't apply. That affects a majority of the American people. You advocate trashing the Constitution in exchange for keeping foreigners out? Okay... but, I reserve the Right to disagree

3) The National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify came about with a promise to control this illegal immigration. Today, that Socialist Surveillance Number ... ooops "Social Security Number" is your de facto National ID number. When you go to purchase a weapon, it is registered (no matter what they call it) under your SSN - Very simply - No SSN, no National ID Card, No National ID then you can't complete a Form 4473 to buy a firearm Yet the build the wall side forced that through Congress on the premise it would lower the numbers

4) The immigration issue was at the heart of the so - called "Patriot Act." Most PA defendants are American citizens and thank those who pushed that bill for screwing over the Fourth Amendment.

I could do that all day long, but you've been programmed Pavlovian style to double down on the talking points and avoid asking yourself WHO passed that statute and why. You won't ask the more important question: How did we keep America safe before immigration got out of hand? There are better solutions, but you wouldn't listen to Jefferson, so I know damn well you aren't going to listen to me.

 

[CuriousFiend]

•According to Wikipedia there's currently approximately ~40 million foreign born U.S. residents & an estimated ~11.7 million illegals lingering about the U.S.A.

*More than double the entire population of my county.(*NZ²⁰²³ ~5,223,100)

•According to TradingEconomics.com: "The GDP value of New Zealand represents 0.11 percent of the world economy. GDP in New Zealand is expected to reach 249.95 USD Billion by the end of 2023, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations."

No doubt chump change by comparison to U.S. gdp, yet considering less than 5mil taxpaying NZ assholes produce than ~$250bil-U.S.D./year here, meanwhile y'all have got near on 12mil non-taxpaying assholes floating around draining U.S....just my opinion but to me that indicates a potentially staggering problem.

•According to FairUS.org: "At the start of 2023, the net cost of illegal immigration for the United States – at the federal, state, and local levels – was at least $150.7 billion."

•"FAIR arrived at this number by subtracting the tax revenue paid by illegal aliens – just under $32 billion – from the gross negative economic impact of illegal immigration, $182 billion."

•"In 2017, the estimated net cost of illegal migration was approximately $116 billion. In just 5 years, the cost to Americans has increased by nearly $35 billion."

•"Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 per year ($957 after factoring in taxes paid by illegal aliens)."

•"Evidence shows that tax payments by illegal aliens cover only around a sixth of the costs they create at all levels in this country."

•"A large percentage of illegal aliens who work in the underground economy frequently avoid paying any income tax at all."

•"Many illegal aliens actually receive a net cash profit through refundable tax credit programs."

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Jake was the one who said we need more, so I'll forgive you for the idiot remark.

Thomas Jefferson once observed that ""The natural progress of things is for liberty to yeild, (sic) and government to gain ground."

The plain and simple truth is that the American people built the greatest nation in the annals of history without building a wall AND without a statute dealing with improper entry. That law was passed in 1929. How, between 1776 and 1929 ( a century and a half) did we build a nation from nothing to the greatest nation in history? You have your solution; I have mine. Mine won't fit on a bumper sticker. You are, however, entitled to know the COSTS associated with your solution:

1) Trying to man the border means having LEOs protect private property which means that they can trespass over your property to pursue so - called illegal aliens. I'm sure you don't see a problem there until they apply the principle to any potential lawbreaker AND then the LEOs trespass on your land to do an illegal search, but claim they are pursuing someone who MIGHT be on your property illegally

2) There is the matter of the Constitution Free Zone. Any area within 100 miles of the border is designated a Constitution Free Zone and your unalienable Rights don't apply. That affects a majority of the American people. You advocate trashing the Constitution in exchange for keeping foreigners out? Okay... but, I reserve the Right to disagree

3) The National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify came about with a promise to control this illegal immigration. Today, that Socialist Surveillance Number ... ooops "Social Security Number" is your de facto National ID number. When you go to purchase a weapon, it is registered (no matter what they call it) under your SSN - Very simply - No SSN, no National ID Card, No National ID then you can't complete a Form 4473 to buy a firearm Yet the build the wall side forced that through Congress on the premise it would lower the numbers

4) The immigration issue was at the heart of the so - called "Patriot Act." Most PA defendants are American citizens and thank those who pushed that bill for screwing over the Fourth Amendment.

I could do that all day long, but you've been programmed Pavlovian style to double down on the talking points and avoid asking yourself WHO passed that statute and why. You won't ask the more important question: How did we keep America safe before immigration got out of hand? There are better solutions, but you wouldn't listen to Jefferson, so I know damn well you aren't going to listen to me.

What law was passed in 1929?

Would you rather have Illegal Immigrants pass over private property with no recourse? The rest of your 1) is already in place and has been in place, so nothing new.

Over 70% of the US population already lives within the CFZ, even you live within the CFZ in Georgia. SMFH

E-verify wasn't put into place to control illegal immigration, it was put in place to deny them work within our business's, it simply made it quicker and easier to verify if their work documents were in fact legal before they were hired. The SS card has been around for near a millennia, in fact you don't need an SS number to purchase a firearm. So as usual you don't know what you are talking about and are espousing "Sovereign Citizen" stupidity.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/soc...ns-identification-purchasing-firearm-licensee

Name one illegal immigrant detained and jailed indefinitely due to the Patriot Act.

The only thing you can do all day is bloviate your ignorance on line.

 

[TFSF]

Here are the results of the poll on X:

 

[Joe King]

Jake was the one who said we need more, so I'll forgive you for the idiot remark.

That was aimed at Jake's comment.

The plain and simple truth is that the American people built the greatest nation in the annals of history without building a wall AND without a statute dealing with improper entry. That law was passed in 1929. How, between 1776 and 1929 ( a century and a half) did we build a nation from nothing to the greatest nation in history? You have your solution; I have mine.

The simple truth is that if we don't do anything to limit/stop the mass immigration, we'll end up over run with people who are only wanting to come here for gov bennies and a job. In the past two years alone there have been at least 8 million people come across the border. We have 38 States with less than 8 million people in them.

You seem to be advocating for unlimited immigration.

1) Trying to man the border means having LEOs protect private property

It's LEO's #1 job to protect the People and their property.

2) There is the matter of the Constitution Free Zone. Any area within 100 miles of the border is designated a Constitution Free Zone and your unalienable Rights don't apply. That affects a majority of the American people. You advocate trashing the Constitution in exchange for keeping foreigners out? Okay... but, I reserve the Right to disagree

I think that shit is bad too. Get rid of the damn illegals and the gov won't have an excuse for that zone.

3) The National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify came about with a promise to control this illegal immigration.

Same here. Get rid of the illegals and keep more from coming in and the gov will no longer have an excuse for crap like that.

4) The immigration issue was at the heart of the so - called "Patriot Act." Most PA defendants are American citizens and thank those who pushed that bill for screwing over the Fourth Amendment.

If we wouldn't let so damn many people into the country, the 9/11 people wouldn't have been able to do what they did.

I could do that all day long, but you've been programmed Pavlovian style

The fuck I have.

 

[Joe King]

Here are the results of the poll on X:

We need immigration reform too.

As in, greatly reducing the numbers allowed to immigrant into the country and changing the asylum requirements to cause anyone seeking asylum to have to show credible evidence that they qualify for asylum. As it stands now, they pretty much just have to claim it. No actual proof required.

The main reason the gov increased the immigration numbers and mostly turn a blind eye towards illegal immigration is because the gov needs the people in order to keep the ponzi scheme going.

I say fuck their ponzi schemes. Just let 'em die as they should.

 

[Joe King]

Birth Right citizenship needs to be done away with too. Children should get the nationality of the mother, not the nation in which she was in when she spit the kid out.

 

[TheResister]

That was aimed at Jake's comment.


The simple truth is that if we don't do anything to limit/stop the mass immigration, we'll end up over run with people who are only wanting to come here for gov bennies and a job. In the past two years alone there have been at least 8 million people come across the border. We have 38 States with less than 8 million people in them.

You seem to be advocating for unlimited immigration.



It's LEO's #1 job to protect the People and their property.



I think that shit is bad too. Get rid of the damn illegals and the gov won't have an excuse for that zone.


Same here. Get rid of the illegals and keep more from coming in and the gov will no longer have an excuse for crap like that.



If we wouldn't let so damn many people into the country, the 9/11 people wouldn't have been able to do what they did.


The fuck I have.

Let's take this by the numbers, Joe:

1) Do you even know what immigration consists of? Immigration is the coming into a country for the purposes of permanent residency. I am on record for the last several decades of being AGAINST wholesale citizenship. As a matter of fact, IF you understood the topic, you could understand the real solution to the issue

2) The LEOs are NOT legally obligated to protect you. The courts have ruled that police only protect society as a whole. Your individual protection and security are YOUR personal responsibility. If the LEOs could protect you there would be no good arguments in favor of the Second Amendment

3) The right suffers from cognitive dissonance, Joe. One man on this site said that we have 11.7 million people he calls "illegals" Well, back in 1980 I help Lt. Col. Jack Mohr do a couple of articles in Newswatch Magazine. At that time we estimated that up a million people crossed the border improperly every year. You say that the problem is recent. But if you had all these people "immigrating" here, then their children would be U.S. citizens and since this has been going on as long as I've been active on the subject, Trump had to lose in a landslide OR most people that come here are NOT immigrating here. They are just guest workers.

Our system has limits on the number of people that come here as guest workers, but we allow nearly a MILLION people each year to become citizens. The new citizens then become Democrats along with the children of undocumented foreigners. The end result is that you ended up helping the Democrat / left wing base outnumber people such as yourself, making this topic moot

4) The pretext for having the Constitution Free Zone is to enforce the border wall

5) The 9 / 11 "people" were Saudis that came here with government approved paperwork

6) You've been flipped by the left. The whole border wall idea was Bill Clinton's before it was Trump's and Trump got the idea from the self proclaimed Minutemen who were exposed as being Nazis.

 

[TheResister]

We need immigration reform too.

As in, greatly reducing the numbers allowed to immigrant into the country and changing the asylum requirements to cause anyone seeking asylum to have to show credible evidence that they qualify for asylum. As it stands now, they pretty much just have to claim it. No actual proof required.

The main reason the gov increased the immigration numbers and mostly turn a blind eye towards illegal immigration is because the gov needs the people in order to keep the ponzi scheme going.

I say fuck their ponzi schemes. Just let 'em die as they should.

Immigration is not the problem. The real problem is allowing too many people to become citizens. That is part of the definition of immigration - leaving one's native country for permanent residence in another.

 

[TheResister]

Birth Right citizenship needs to be done away with too. Children should get the nationality of the mother, not the nation in which she was in when she spit the kid out.

Birthright citizenship (sic) came about with the passage of the illegally ratified Fourteenth Amendment. That, contrary to the resident fed, is NOT a conspiracy theory. The legality of that amendment is a topic commented on by lawyers, judges, civil libertarians, legal researchers and historians. It is a legal theory. Rescind that amendment and you get rid of your perceived problem.

 

[Jake Broe Stan]

Birthright citizenship (sic) came about with the passage of the illegally ratified Fourteenth Amendment. That, contrary to the resident fed, is NOT a conspiracy theory. The legality of that amendment is a topic commented on by lawyers, judges, civil libertarians, legal researchers and historians. It is a legal theory. Rescind that amendment and you get rid of your perceived problem.

Knowing that some retards honestly believe this is gratifying.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Let's take this by the numbers, Joe:

1) Do you even know what immigration consists of? Immigration is the coming into a country for the purposes of permanent residency. I am on record for the last several decades of being AGAINST wholesale citizenship. As a matter of fact, IF you understood the topic, you could understand the real solution to the issue

2) The LEOs are NOT legally obligated to protect you. The courts have ruled that police only protect society as a whole. Your individual protection and security are YOUR personal responsibility. If the LEOs could protect you there would be no good arguments in favor of the Second Amendment

3) The right suffers from cognitive dissonance, Joe. One man on this site said that we have 11.7 million people he calls "illegals" Well, back in 1980 I help Lt. Col. Jack Mohr do a couple of articles in Newswatch Magazine. At that time we estimated that up a million people crossed the border improperly every year. You say that the problem is recent. But if you had all these people "immigrating" here, then their children would be U.S. citizens and since this has been going on as long as I've been active on the subject, Trump had to lose in a landslide OR most people that come here are NOT immigrating here. They are just guest workers.

Our system has limits on the number of people that come here as guest workers, but we allow nearly a MILLION people each year to become citizens. The new citizens then become Democrats along with the children of undocumented foreigners. The end result is that you ended up helping the Democrat / left wing base outnumber people such as yourself, making this topic moot

4) The pretext for having the Constitution Free Zone is to enforce the border wall

5) The 9 / 11 "people" were Saudis that came here with government approved paperwork

6) You've been flipped by the left. The whole border wall idea was Bill Clinton's before it was Trump's and Trump got the idea from the self proclaimed Minutemen who were exposed as being Nazis.

Why are you talking about "immigration" when Joe is talking about "Illegal immigration" by economic refugees entering the USA via entering without inspection and then trying to claim asylum to which they have no legality in claiming? Asylum seekers must apply in the first country they enter after leaving their country, if they are denied there they can then enter the next. Our Government under Biden and Mayorkis have allowed them in and have given them court dates where they will not show up to. So if you really understood the topic and the laws you would have responded differently.

We've had 11.7M illegals in the US since the early '90's, the real number is much closer to 50M today. Immigrants that are granted US Citizenship vote based on what they believe, they are not beholden to either party. Many are Republican leaning and tend to vote that way. Many have left Communist and Authoritarian countries, they don't want the US to become what they just left.

The CFZ has been in place since the '50's and was put in place to help our workers keep their jobs and not be replaced by SCAB workers. In the late '60's and early '70's the border was patrolled by Ceasar Chavez to keep illegal grape pickers from taking jobs here. If the border wall was Clintons idea I wonder why California installed a border wall along its Southern border back in the early '80's without the federal government intervening.

Nobody has been flipped by the "left". At one point politicians actually cared about the American people and not their own pockets.

 

[Jake Broe Stan]

^^^

 

[TheResister]

Knowing that some retards honestly believe this is gratifying.

You sink to new lows with the name calling; however, it is easier to convince the judicial branch of government to interpret the laws correctly than to fret over passing laws that won't ever hold water in the real world.

The legislative branch of government has little chance of passing a law regarding birthright citizenship that contradicts what the courts have said relative to the illegally ratified Fourteenth Amendment. They pass the law and the courts will invalidate it.

OTOH, if the courts reinterpret the illegally ratified Fourteenth Amendment or perhaps look into its legality and overturn it, then it is much easier (and doable) than going through the amendment process.

That it pisses you off that I call it like it is makes me happy. I guess we're even.

 

[Jake Broe Stan]

You sink to new lows with the name calling; however, it is easier to convince the judicial branch of government to interpret the laws correctly than to fret over passing laws that won't ever hold water in the real world.

The legislative branch of government has little chance of passing a law regarding birthright citizenship that contradicts what the courts have said relative to the illegally ratified Fourteenth Amendment. They pass the law and the courts will invalidate it.

OTOH, if the courts reinterpret the illegally ratified Fourteenth Amendment or perhaps look into its legality and overturn it, then it is much easier (and doable) than going through the amendment process.

That it pisses you off that I call it like it is makes me happy. I guess we're even.

Why would you exposing yourself as a retard piss me off? Do you not know what gratifying means? You might as well type “I’m retarded” every time you post that shit because that’s all anyone with a brain or education sees.

Courts have no standing to rule on the legality of amendments once they are ratified. All they can do is interpret them. I’m hoping that was just another shitty troll attempt on your part because otherwise… yikes!

Carry on! You’re the train wreck that makes people cringe but that people cannot stop watching.

 

[Joe King]

Why are you talking about "immigration" when Joe is talking about "Illegal immigration" by economic refugees entering the USA via entering without inspection and then trying to claim asylum to which they have no legality in claiming?

Exactly. Thank you for saving me the time of having to type out an answer.

 

[Jake Broe Stan]

Exactly. Thank you for saving me the time of having to type out an answer.

You seem like you’re probably a cool guy IRL.

I wish you would drop the cynical snark so we could have some Joe Rogan style honest conversation.

We both agree the issues facing this country are deadly serious.

 

[TheResister]

Why would you exposing yourself as a retard piss me off? Do you not know what gratifying means? You might as well type “I’m retarded” every time you post that shit because that’s all anyone with a brain or education sees.

Courts have no standing to rule on the legality of amendments once they are ratified. All they can do is interpret them. I’m hoping that was just another shitty troll attempt on your part because otherwise… yikes!

Carry on! You’re the train wreck that makes people cringe but that people cannot stop watching.

Your dumbassery never ceases to amaze me. When courts interpret the laws, they sometimes define words to their liking, grant powers not mentioned in the Constitution, and then they reinterpret the laws to their liking. It's also known as legislating from the bench.

Contrary to what you're saying they can also determine that laws were illegally enacted, unconstitutionally enforced and / or conflicting with other portions of the Constitution.

Look at what has been done with the Fourth Amendment. Very little of the original intent is left.

 

[Liquid Reigns]

Your dumbassery never ceases to amaze me. When courts interpret the laws, they sometimes define words to their liking, grant powers not mentioned in the Constitution, and then they reinterpret the laws to their liking. It's also known as legislating from the bench.

Contrary to what you're saying they can also determine that laws were illegally enacted, unconstitutionally enforced and / or conflicting with other portions of the Constitution.

Look at what has been done with the Fourth Amendment. Very little of the original intent is left.

Courts define words based on the context they are used. Just because certain things aren't directly mentioned in the USC doesn't mean the concept (power) isn't found within.

What laws are re-interpreted to their liking?

Legislating from the bench usually happens in lower courts, and those are overturned by higher courts or the Supreme Court if it needs to make it that high.

Nobody disagrees that SCOTUS can nullify unconstitutional law.

What they can't do is decide if a Constitutional Amendment is in violation of the law or if it was ratified illegally, that's Congress's job. Why aren't you also complaining about the 13th and 15th Amendments since they were ratified during the same time and in a questionable manner?

 

[fschmidt]

What difference does it make whether the morons are natives or immigrants?

 

[TheResister]

What difference does it make whether the morons are natives or immigrants?

I don't know what you mean between natives and immigrants. Here is the differences we're talking about:

An immigrant comes here for permanent residence.
A guest worker comes here for some quick money and then they return home
We naturalize almost a million new citizens per year
There are strict caps on guest workers; 65,000 H1B visas per year and and additional 20,000 for those with advanced college degrees = 85,000

The right demands that foreigners come here via some "legal" process Whether knowingly or not, that means citizenship. Once those foreigners become citizens, they vote the Posterity of the Constitution out of office, making this entire discussion moot.

I am not in favor of wholesale citizenship. Is that clear enough for you?

 

[Liquid Reigns]

I don't know what you mean between natives and immigrants. Here is the differences we're talking about:

An immigrant comes here for permanent residence.
A guest worker comes here for some quick money and then they return home
We naturalize almost a million new citizens per year
There are strict caps on guest workers; 65,000 H1B visas per year and and additional 20,000 for those with advanced college degrees = 85,000

The right demands that foreigners come here via some "legal" process Whether knowingly or not, that means citizenship. Once those foreigners become citizens, they vote the Posterity of the Constitution out of office, making this entire discussion moot.

I am not in favor of wholesale citizenship. Is that clear enough for you?

There are numerous other visas besides the H1B and College visas, hell the H2A has no limits. College visas and work visas are all guest visas, and very few of those can be changed over to permanent visas.

Here is the visa category list for both immigrant and non-immigrant visas:

Directory of Visa Categories

travel.state.gov

The reason 1M per year naturalize is because they have been here for a minimum of 5 years on a green card, while some wait years to naturalize and get off green card status.

Yes the right does demand they come here legally, and that they leave when their visa expires if they do not hold a visa that allows them to apply for green card status. That way we know who is here and have control of our border and who enters.

What is the posterity of the Constitution? Are you claiming the USC was written for the white race? You are aware that there were black Americans that served in Congress during the Confederation right?

Nobody is in favor of wholesale citizenship, we get to pick and choose who we allow to become citizens if they arrive here from foreign nations.

Your drivel sounds pretty "White Nationalist ".

 

[weaponoffreedom]

View attachment 208102

cost of bullets, pay per view them bitches getting shot by benchrest teams....kind of like groundhogs, but not as clean.