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Things appear to be really heating up (Russia/Ukraine)

TJHall1

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Jan 9, 2021
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My greatest fear is that Poland will become so over populated with F15's that it will tip over and capsize.
412199-200px.jpeg
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
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Eye just keep counting the days until The Don is back sew we can put this noncents two bed.
 

shiv

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Not sure how Putin does this and comes out smelling good. The repercussions with trade and finance will be extreme. His country is borderline bankrupt.
I think he’s was past giving a shit about repercussions. They made that oil deal with China in the last few months.

He basically said he’s taking Ukraine and if anyone tries to do anything he’s gonna wipe out half of Europe.
 

BigBucnNole

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Anybody want to give a summary of the Ukraine situation and why we should give a fuck?

Gotta be honest I don’t fucking care what goes on over there.

This is my theory from all the shit I've read and pieced together... No idea if it's right or not, but I'm not sure anyone has a complete answer at this point. I'd even go so far as to say conventional wisdom would say Russia won't invade BUT... they sure as fuck look like they are going to do it.

This is my theory, so TIFWIW...

I think there are three angles at play for the US. Russian one, the European one, and the Asian one. All three rest on Ukraine.

The Russian angle is that by monopolizing gas they can largely neutralize Europe from supporting the US, dismantle NATO and extend their borders up through Ukraine and make it more defensible, Russia may not even need to invade as long as the saber rattle loud enough to force some backroom hush hush deals with Germany. That’ll open up Nordstream 2, remove Europe from the equation, and force concessions from the US. The worst part from our standpoint would be a resurgent Russia on a world stage as a much larger competitor that we had spent the prior century dismantling.
The European angle is such that European foreign policy is largely controlled by the US today. European foreign policy is primarily concerned with Eastern Europe, and a NATO presence there plus a puppet state in Ukraine keeps the Europeans tied to the US. If NATO is pushed out of Eastern Europe, and Germany accepts Russian gas, the threat of Russian gas cutoff outweighs the red boogie man that NATO was designed to stop. Better stated, Germany would face a bigger strategic problem that wouldn’t require the US for a solution. With a Russian Ukraine and a removal of US influence from Eastern Europe the Germans and thereby Europeans are less likely to need the US.
The Asian angle is we’ve been trying to pivot to Asia for almost a decade. We’ve made the calculation that we need Europe economically and the five eyes plus France militarily for the region. We are willing to piss off the Russians, even threaten war, to keep European dependence and make it so they have no choice but to follow our lead. If Ukraine falls to Russia US leverage goes poof, and the Germans can choose to back us, or open the door to the Chinese. We aren’t confident “freedom and liberty” is enough of an argument to keep them actively involved in our side.

One last piece is the currency argument and US leveraging. If the faith in the dollar is predominantly based in US strength. Any fracture along the way, the decline of NATO or the loss of Taiwan, could seriously damage the dollar and make our lives more difficult.
I do not believe the military is the end all be all of the dollar, and we have turned Saudi Arabia and their oil into a puppet state effectively. Another huge plus is our massive advanced economy and stability surrounded by two oceans and no real threats will always make the US one of the powerful economic engines on the planet.
Our debt is equivalent to someone borrowing $60k on a $50k salary, and paying $93 a month. We could conceivably keep borrowing forever as long as interest stays low. Planet instability has made every additional dollar borrowed even cheaper.
If a military blow were to happen and the world order post WW2 is no longer sustainable, all a very real possibility, the world would become more unstable. International currency would still need a reserve, and the only two viable options would be the Euro or Dollar. Most likely case would be a greater mix of Euros in the reserve portfolios for most countries. Our $93 monthly payment could jump to a little over a $100.
And if it’s more expensive to borrow, it may force a higher degree of competitiveness for us here.

Just my three cents.

It's hard to say who put this fuckin shit sandwich in place. Energy is the manifestation of geography and demographics which all are geopolitics. It's never been a secret that Russia has resources Europe needs and we've been playing a balancing act since 1945. The nice thing about the USSR is that they could invade and run over Europe and were willing to if push came to shove so it created a natural gravity for the Western Europeans to fall into our arms.
Since the fall of the USSR the main weapon the Russians have had has been energy and it's hard to dissuade the euros from it without a threat of war. It's not a coincidence that a gas pipeline, two main ones really goes through Syria. One from Qatar and the other from Iran. Conveniently you get a revolution in Syria that could push a pipeline into Europe from a US protectorate. And equally conveniently the Russians back Assad.
Then there is the Nordstream show. Schroeder set it up, I think it was roughly in the 2005 to 07 range that the wheels started turning which led to a US response of threatening the southern Russian flank with NATO expansion into Georgia. If NATO setup shop in Georgia, they are in the Caucasus. That, if you paid attention to WW2 was what the battle of Stalingrad was about. It was a strategic objective the Germans used to cut off the Black Sea. That's a massive trade link and a warm water port dating back to I think Peter the Great ( I believe), Russia dies without it. So the Russians invade and knock Georgia out of the equation.
Then Nordstream 2 begins gaining steam circa 2012 to 13 and voila a 2014 Green Revolution in Ukraine that removed the Russian puppet and replaced him with ours. Again, threatening the Russian core with NATO expansion. And here we are with a threatening Russian invasion.

Ultimately we have no economic solution to the resource/ energy problem in Europe. Shit European policies with green energy and natural gas, which very well could've been the product of Russian lobbying in Berlin, is breaking NATO. And obviously their only shit policies from our POV, for the Russians it's the best idea in a long time, if not ever from the Germans.
 

shiv

John
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This is my theory from all the shit I've read and pieced together... No idea if it's right or not, but I'm not sure anyone has a complete answer at this point. I'd even go so far as to say conventional wisdom would say Russia won't invade BUT... they sure as fuck look like they are going to do it.

This is my theory, so TIFWIW...

I think there are three angles at play for the US. Russian one, the European one, and the Asian one. All three rest on Ukraine.

The Russian angle is that by monopolizing gas they can largely neutralize Europe from supporting the US, dismantle NATO and extend their borders up through Ukraine and make it more defensible, Russia may not even need to invade as long as the saber rattle loud enough to force some backroom hush hush deals with Germany. That’ll open up Nordstream 2, remove Europe from the equation, and force concessions from the US. The worst part from our standpoint would be a resurgent Russia on a world stage as a much larger competitor that we had spent the prior century dismantling.
The European angle is such that European foreign policy is largely controlled by the US today. European foreign policy is primarily concerned with Eastern Europe, and a NATO presence there plus a puppet state in Ukraine keeps the Europeans tied to the US. If NATO is pushed out of Eastern Europe, and Germany accepts Russian gas, the threat of Russian gas cutoff outweighs the red boogie man that NATO was designed to stop. Better stated, Germany would face a bigger strategic problem that wouldn’t require the US for a solution. With a Russian Ukraine and a removal of US influence from Eastern Europe the Germans and thereby Europeans are less likely to need the US.
The Asian angle is we’ve been trying to pivot to Asia for almost a decade. We’ve made the calculation that we need Europe economically and the five eyes plus France militarily for the region. We are willing to piss off the Russians, even threaten war, to keep European dependence and make it so they have no choice but to follow our lead. If Ukraine falls to Russia US leverage goes poof, and the Germans can choose to back us, or open the door to the Chinese. We aren’t confident “freedom and liberty” is enough of an argument to keep them actively involved in our side.

One last piece is the currency argument and US leveraging. If the faith in the dollar is predominantly based in US strength. Any fracture along the way, the decline of NATO or the loss of Taiwan, could seriously damage the dollar and make our lives more difficult.
I do not believe the military is the end all be all of the dollar, and we have turned Saudi Arabia and their oil into a puppet state effectively. Another huge plus is our massive advanced economy and stability surrounded by two oceans and no real threats will always make the US one of the powerful economic engines on the planet.
Our debt is equivalent to someone borrowing $60k on a $50k salary, and paying $93 a month. We could conceivably keep borrowing forever as long as interest stays low. Planet instability has made every additional dollar borrowed even cheaper.
If a military blow were to happen and the world order post WW2 is no longer sustainable, all a very real possibility, the world would become more unstable. International currency would still need a reserve, and the only two viable options would be the Euro or Dollar. Most likely case would be a greater mix of Euros in the reserve portfolios for most countries. Our $93 monthly payment could jump to a little over a $100.
And if it’s more expensive to borrow, it may force a higher degree of competitiveness for us here.

Just my three cents.

It's hard to say who put this fuckin shit sandwich in place. Energy is the manifestation of geography and demographics which all are geopolitics. It's never been a secret that Russia has resources Europe needs and we've been playing a balancing act since 1945. The nice thing about the USSR is that they could invade and run over Europe and were willing to if push came to shove so it created a natural gravity for the Western Europeans to fall into our arms.
Since the fall of the USSR the main weapon the Russians have had has been energy and it's hard to dissuade the euros from it without a threat of war. It's not a coincidence that a gas pipeline, two main ones really goes through Syria. One from Qatar and the other from Iran. Conveniently you get a revolution in Syria that could push a pipeline into Europe from a US protectorate. And equally conveniently the Russians back Assad.
Then there is the Nordstream show. Schroeder set it up, I think it was roughly in the 2005 to 07 range that the wheels started turning which led to a US response of threatening the southern Russian flank with NATO expansion into Georgia. If NATO setup shop in Georgia, they are in the Caucasus. That, if you paid attention to WW2 was what the battle of Stalingrad was about. It was a strategic objective the Germans used to cut off the Black Sea. That's a massive trade link and a warm water port dating back to I think Peter the Great ( I believe), Russia dies without it. So the Russians invade and knock Georgia out of the equation.
Then Nordstream 2 begins gaining steam circa 2012 to 13 and voila a 2014 Green Revolution in Ukraine that removed the Russian puppet and replaced him with ours. Again, threatening the Russian core with NATO expansion. And here we are with a threatening Russian invasion.

Ultimately we have no economic solution to the resource/ energy problem in Europe. Shit European policies with green energy and natural gas, which very well could've been the product of Russian lobbying in Berlin, is breaking NATO. And obviously their only shit policies from our POV, for the Russians it's the best idea in a long time, if not ever from the Germans.
Have you been paying attention to what’s going on in UAE and Yemen? Seems like a full blown proxy war.

In just the last few weeks the Houthi rebels in Yemen are launching all kinds of shit into the UAE. And not just rockets, but big time tactical weapons that you wouldn’t expect a group of “rebels” to have

The THAAD missile system was used for the first time ever in a combat situation in January and was used again later that month.
 

BigBucnNole

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Messages
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Have you been paying attention to what’s going on in UAE and Yemen? Seems like a full blown proxy war.

In just the last few weeks the Houthi rebels in Yemen are launching all kinds of shit into the UAE. And not just rockets, but big time tactical weapons that you wouldn’t expect a group of “rebels” to have

The THAAD missile system was used for the first time ever in a combat situation in January and was used again later that month.

I've been paying a little attention here and there. I saw the THAAD stuff. I believe the Houthis are backed by Iran. We involved ourselves loosely but last I heard we're trying to get the fuck out but the Saudis are going straight Rwanda.
 

shiv

John
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I've been paying a little attention here and there. I saw the THAAD stuff. I believe the Houthis are backed by Iran. We involved ourselves loosely but last I heard we're trying to get the fuck out but the Saudis are going straight Rwanda.
Also this: China is pissed we just sold Patriot to Taiwan


I could see China amping up pressure in Taiwan with all the eyes on Ukraine.
 

BigBucnNole

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Neither does Biden or anyone in our Military leadership.

Appreciate Team Not Biden, but I don't think anyone could ever have a grasp on the situation. This isn't a movie, things move fast with little to no information. World Wars have started this way.

Fun fact, George Washington inadvertently started the world's first World War.
 

Jayhacker

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With the IOC reporting a failed drug test against a russian gold medal female skater, Putin may say fk it and sound the charge.
 

BigBucnNole

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How much of this is political theatre

I think we are passed that point. No idea though, but it's not like they are posturing for an election when you have positioned 100s of thousands.

I remember back to Iraq, once the military was in place, there was no going back.
 
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