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The American Jobs Plan Will Make Our Infrastructure Crisis Worse (link)...

BigBucnNole

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This guy is a fucking retard. Something like an infrastructure bill, of the part that is truly infrastructure, you’d generate 1.5 to 1.8x on infrastructure construction. It’s a founding principal of capitalism to act as a umpire and support to the free market according to none other than Adam Smith.

We aren’t China for a hundred million reasons. And our infrastructure is laughable amateurish bullshit.

My worry with a bill like this is how much is actually dedicated towards true infrastructure. And these retard blogs just muddy the waters further.

Please spare us all the rest of his garbage.
 

AgEngDawg

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This guy is a fucking retard. Something like an infrastructure bill, of the part that is truly infrastructure, you’d generate 1.5 to 1.8x on infrastructure construction. It’s a founding principal of capitalism to act as a umpire and support to the free market according to none other than Adam Smith.

We aren’t China for a hundred million reasons. And our infrastructure is laughable amateurish bullshit.

My worry with a bill like this is how much is actually dedicated towards true infrastructure. And these retard blogs just muddy the waters further.

Please spare us all the rest of his garbage.

His argument is that it is good for a sugar high in the national economy. It is not good for the local communities long term.

Those infrastructure projects come with long term operations and maintenance cost. If the piece of infrastructure can not generate enough dollars that are catchable by the local municipality, each infrastructure project is making the local municipality poorer and poorer to the point of crisis.
 

BigBucnNole

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His argument is that it is good for a sugar high in the national economy. It is not good for the local communities long term.

Those infrastructure projects come with long term operations and maintenance cost. If the piece of infrastructure can not generate enough dollars that are catchable by the local municipality, each infrastructure project is making the local municipality poorer and poorer to the point of crisis.

That’s a dumb argument. Current roads come with costs. Dated infrastructure comes with huge costs. If we build a national rail system and shift even 20% more of transport to rail, that’ll cut cost for that 20% by nearly 85% given how much cheaper moving goods are by rail. That’s a massive investment in efficiency. This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
 

AgEngDawg

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That’s a dumb argument. Current roads come with costs. Dated infrastructure comes with huge costs. If we build a national rail system and shift even 20% more of transport to rail, that’ll cut cost for that 20% by nearly 85% given how much cheaper moving goods are by rail. That’s a massive investment in efficiency. This guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

California can't even afford to build one small section with huge federal backing.
 

America 1st

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California can't even afford to build one small section with huge federal backing.
Doesn't seem we even use the rail we got.

No need to waste trillions on something that is just going to draw more jobs and people into cities (which is the opposite of what we need.
 

BigBucnNole

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Doesn't seem we even use the rail we got.

No need to waste trillions on something that is just going to draw more jobs and people into cities (which is the opposite of what we need.

You would invigorate small towns with rail. Only 28% of US goods are moved by rail because of shit monopolies like CSX and I think the other one is Pacific something or other. Then you got the Amtrak debacle which operates like a functional retard and clogs up a good chunk of class I (i think thats the term) rail.

California can afford it since they aren't really paying. Bigger issue with that is local politics. Which ironically advocates more for national oversight. From my own experience is that the more local the more corrupt you get.
 

BigBucnNole

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Look at it this way, our infrastructure is so shitty that it's cheaper to pay a starving chinese guy half way across the planet and then ship it back to the US and transport it by truck than use our own rail tied to small towns. Something is seriously fucked up here.

God help us if Mexico decided to invade. We wouldn’t be able to physically transport enough tanks and material to counter attack.
 

GarnetPild

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Look at it this way, our infrastructure is so shitty that it's cheaper to pay a starving chinese guy half way across the planet and then ship it back to the US and transport it by truck than use our own rail tied to small towns. Something is seriously fucked up here.

God help us if Mexico decided to invade. We wouldn’t be able to physically transport enough tanks and material to counter attack.

I agree our infastructure is shit, but the reason we make junk in china is because of the low cost of labor/manufacturing, not anything transportation related.
 

America 1st

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Look at it this way, our infrastructure is so shitty that it's cheaper to pay a starving chinese guy half way across the planet and then ship it back to the US and transport it by truck than use our own rail tied to small towns. Something is seriously fucked up here.

God help us if Mexico decided to invade. We wouldn’t be able to physically transport enough tanks and material to counter attack.
That's kind of where I'm coming from in regards to revamping our standard rail.

Tons of room for improvement!

Rail lines sit empty all across my home town and county because of bullshit and we have steel mills, Timken, Hoover, Steralite, ect. just here in Canton.

It's not like NEO is hurting for companies that produce products.
 

America 1st

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I agree our infastructure is shit, but the reason we make junk in china is because of the low cost of labor/manufacturing, not anything transportation related.
I think you both are right sadly.
 

Zgdaf

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BigBucnNole

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I agree our infastructure is shit, but the reason we make junk in china is because of the low cost of labor/manufacturing, not anything transportation related.

The general gist is you have entry costs, marginal costs, and transportation costs. The entry to china is kind of high, probably higher than here when you factor in dealing with the CCP or another 3rd world government. Marginal cost of slave labor is diminishing versus an advanced worker tied to advanced machinery. We even out on the barrier costs and we definitely lead on the cost of producing each and every additional good. That last part of the equation is transportation. It's just too fucking hard to get goods from BFE ohio to market. It's much easier to ship your shit to LA from China.

Russia actually has this problem with farm goods. The most fertile soil in the world is actually south of Moscow. There's a term for it, black gold or black soil or some shit. They even named a sect of Russians after it. Problem though is that post harvest most of their crap rots before they can bring it to market. Our problem is that problem, only magnified to manufacturing. If I were a betting man, the years of high corporate taxation created a capital shortage that rotted our manufacturing and when Reagan came in and fixed that problem, instead of investing in local factories and paying a high entry fee to fix and upgrade equipment, people said "fuck it let's pay china." The growth in technology at the same time created a situation where investment dollars could better be put towards computer tech than boosting real output economy wise. We now have this barrier cost of entry with infinite upside.

We're not a shit manufacturing economy by any means either. We shit all over Chinese production of cars for example. But... a lot of that is machinery and automation. I think if you could meld the advancement in tech and had a reasonable infrastructure to support it, you could create an economic powerhouse where you would create an economic equation that would support exponentially more equipment tied to a fraction of the employees per piece of machinery. And with the added benefit of maximizing employment. You may only have 5 employees per machine, but if you set the incentives to have more machines, there is exponential potential tied into relatively cheap labor costs that have the ability to maintain and manage the equipment. And there is a shortage too, durable goods are more expensive now than they've ever been. Bought a car lately? So there is definitely downward pressure pent up that a real manufacturing base could kill if properly invested in.
 
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Jtrain80

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Look at it this way, our infrastructure is so shitty that it's cheaper to pay a starving chinese guy half way across the planet and then ship it back to the US and transport it by truck than use our own rail tied to small towns. Something is seriously fucked up here.

God help us if Mexico decided to invade. We wouldn’t be able to physically transport enough tanks and material to counter attack.

The whole country needs to listen to Texas. They have the best roads I have ever driven on.



Heard about this awhile back. Absolute game changer if they start putting gov "projects" in the suburbs.
 

AgEngDawg

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The whole country needs to listen to Texas. They have the best roads I have ever driven on.




Heard about this awhile back. Absolute game changer if they start putting gov "projects" in the suburbs.

They will not. Most suburbs are rich enough to turn their nose up at federal money.

Suburbs are rich because a lot of people live there and pay property tax. As opposed to cities where tons of people only commute into and do not pay property tax.
 

BigBucnNole

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They will not. Most suburbs are rich enough to turn their nose up at federal money.

Suburbs are rich because a lot of people live there and pay property tax. As opposed to cities where tons of people only commute into and do not pay property tax.

Companies pay a lot of property tax and tangible personal property tax.
 

hmt5000

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Inflation in building materials is going to make that insane amount even less of a positive than what little it was going to be anyway. You won't be able to build shit in a year.
 

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