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Marines officially go full REEEEE

Joe Kings

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lol, we are so fvcked.

Secede now, here's our opening!!!!
Why did Nate Andrews leave? I can’t post on warchant and saw you said you knew why. Share it with me. I was told it was just a mutual decision. Nothing more or less.
 

JordanPetersHorn

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Nothing like making a bad situation worse.
True, but there’s no long term solution otherwise. Since states are backing off Covid stuff now that Donald’s out I think it’s less likely, but modern republicans have NOTHING in common with modern leftists
 

America 1st

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True, but there’s no long term solution otherwise. Since states are backing off Covid stuff now that Donald’s out I think it’s less likely, but modern republicans have NOTHING in common with modern leftists
Destroying leftist culture is the only answer.

Secession is unconstitutional for a multitude of reasons and it would weaken the United States and everyone's ability to defend themselves from foreign powers. It's never an option.
 

JordanPetersHorn

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Destroying leftist culture is the only answer.

Secession is unconstitutional for a multitude of reasons and it would weaken the United States and everyone's ability to defend themselves from foreign powers. It's never an option.
I don’t see a way of doing it. They dominate the state run education system and a lot of this comes from the abundance theory where people just think “oh that guys super rich and I’m aggrieved because of my race.” Also from the feminization of the culture which is something the founders never planned for

Unconstitutionality isn’t a stopper on anything. Get enough states to Vote on an amendment then it’s now a part of the constitution. That’s also acting like that will stop what they want to do anyway, they’ve systematically violated pretty much every bill of rightl
 

America 1st

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I don’t see a way of doing it. They dominate the state run education system and a lot of this comes from the abundance theory where people just think “oh that guys super rich and I’m aggrieved because of my race.” Also from the feminization of the culture which is something the founders never planned for

Unconstitutionality isn’t a stopper on anything. Get enough states to Vote on an amendment then it’s now a part of the constitution. That’s also acting like that will stop what they want to do anyway, they’ve systematically violated pretty much every bill of rightl
Would never get the requisite number of states or 2/3 of Congress nor would that make it a good idea anyways. There is never an avenue where breaking up the union and weakening the whole is a good idea.


Just because it's tough to see how we roll back this abomination that we've allowed to take hold doesn't mean it isn't the only option.
 

SOTrojan

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Destroying leftist culture is the only answer.

Secession is unconstitutional for a multitude of reasons and it would weaken the United States and everyone's ability to defend themselves from foreign powers. It's never an option.
Unfortunately, ultimately it will be the only option other than violence imo.

Saying it is unconstitutional (it is not imo, as the con is silent on the issue) misses the point. If a state or group are leaving the union, they no longer care what the laws of that union are, those laws are no longer meaningful. They are forming their own new union with its own laws (which could reinstate the current constitution).

Yes, it would weaken the US, but if the US is no longer “America” as it was created and designed to be, again because it has become a leftist nation where individual freedom is taken away, what does it matter? It’s not a good thing if/when it has to happen, but to preserve America and the principles on which it is based, it is unlikely there will be any option other than violence.
 

America 1st

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Unfortunately, ultimately it will be the only option other than violence imo.

Saying it is unconstitutional (it is not imo, as the con is silent on the issue) misses the point. If a state or group are leaving the union, they no longer care what the laws of that union are, those laws are no longer meaningful. They are forming their own new union with its own laws (which could reinstate the current constitution).

Yes, it would weaken the US, but if the US is no longer “America” as it was created and designed to be, again because it has become a leftist nation where individual freedom is taken away, what does it matter? It’s not a good thing if/when it has to happen, but to preserve America and the principles on which it is based, it is unlikely there will be any option other than violence.
Fundamentally disagree with all of this.

The SCOTUS has ruled secession is unconstitutional, we fought a war over it, the Constitution doesn't provide a mechanism for it, and states can't take away the US citizenship of their residents.

States even trying to is insurrection and grounds for military intervention which would not only be legally appropriate but morally appropriate as well.

It's the duty of the US government to go to war to protect it's citizens and attempts by states to remove US citizens from their rights, freedoms, and liberties should be met with the full force of the US military.

As a common sense note too China and Russia would like nothing more than to break up the union via any means. People feeling like their rights are being infringed isn't cause to violate the Constitution. The Constitution provides for conventions and amendments to change the government while also specifically laying out how domestic insurrection should be treated in article IV.

Article IV completely shoots down secession. We live under the laws of the Constitution not the ideals of the Declaration of Independence.
 

SOTrojan

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Fundamentally disagree with all of this.

The SCOTUS has ruled secession is unconstitutional, we fought a war over it, the Constitution doesn't provide a mechanism for it, and states can't take away the US citizenship of their residents.

States even trying to is insurrection and grounds for military intervention which would not only be legally appropriate but morally appropriate as well.

It's the duty of the US government to go to war to protect it's citizens and attempts by states to remove US citizens from their rights, freedoms, and liberties should be met with the full force of the US military.

As a common sense note too China and Russia would like nothing more than to break up the union via any means. People feeling like their rights are being infringed isn't cause to violate the Constitution. The Constitution provides for conventions and amendments to change the government while also specifically laying out how domestic insurrection should be treated in article IV.

Article IV completely shoots down secession. We live under the laws of the Constitution not the ideals of the Declaration of Independence.
So in your opinion, the Declaration of Independence is fundamentally wrong?

A group of people deciding to leave the union is by definition not stripping them of their rights and privileges, they are giving up whatever they have. And would presumably be leaving precisely because the existing government had stripped them of their rights and privileges.
 

America 1st

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So in your opinion, the Declaration of Independence is fundamentally wrong?

A group of people deciding to leave the union is by definition not stripping them of their rights and privileges, they are giving up whatever they have. And would presumably be leaving precisely because the existing government had stripped them of their rights and privileges.
At state can't decide for all the people of a state. Each person is a US citizen and can only renounce that citizenship themselves. It's why there is no mechanism for secession (because it was never intended, legally feasible, or morally correct).

It's not that the Declaration of Independence was wrong. It's just that it was a singular document that wasn't the charter or founding document for the government of the United States.

At this point the Declaration of Independence is nothing more than a lense through which to interpret the Constitution (hopefully). Other than that it has no legal bearing on the laws of the United States or the rights of it's citizens.
 

SOTrojan

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At state can't decide for all the people of a state. Each person is a US citizen and can only renounce that citizenship themselves. It's why there is no mechanism for secession (because it was never intended, legally feasible, or morally correct).

It's not that the Declaration of Independence was wrong. It's just that it was a singular document that wasn't the charter or founding document for the government of the United States.

At this point the Declaration of Independence is nothing more than a lense through which to interpret the Constitution (hopefully). Other than that it has no legal bearing on the laws of the United States or the rights of it's citizens.


The Declaration of Independence says human beings have inalienable rights and when a government takes those away, people have an inalienable right to rid themselves of that government and to reinstate those rights to themselves. I don’t see how that does not have universal application. The legalities and constitution of the existing government, which is assumed in the discussion to be oppressive and abusing the rights of the people and therefore is no longer legitimate, are irrelevant and place no restriction on those rights.
 

America 1st

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The Declaration of Independence says human beings have inalienable rights and when a government takes those away, people have an inalienable right to rid themselves of that government and to reinstate those rights to themselves. I don’t see how that does not have universal application. The legalities and constitution of the existing government, which is assumed in the discussion to be oppressive and abusing the rights of the people and therefore is no longer legitimate, are irrelevant and place no restriction on those rights.
Because The Declaration of Independence isn't the charter document for our country. It's nothing more than a declaration of ideas by a group of people at a certain time in history.

You can believe everything in it, I'm not stopping you from that, but that belief doesn't hold equal standing to the law of the land here in the United States (The US Constitution).

The Dec of Ind. isn't law and the Founders chose that for themselves (the same people who wrote it). That tells you all you need to know.

The rights that you supposedly have as ideas under the Dec of Ind. are something you would need to secure yourself or through government. Your idea of your rights don't trump those agreed to by The People of The United States under The Constitution.

You would need to go somewhere else to establish those rights as you attempting to secure those rights in opposition to the Constitution would be a violation of the rights of US citizens that were given to them by their government AND THEIR CREATOR.

You feeling government is abusive doesn't actually make it so or trump the Constitution (the rights of others given by their creator and gov).
 

AmericanViking

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Fundamentally disagree with all of this.

The SCOTUS has ruled secession is unconstitutional, we fought a war over it, the Constitution doesn't provide a mechanism for it, and states can't take away the US citizenship of their residents.

States even trying to is insurrection and grounds for military intervention which would not only be legally appropriate but morally appropriate as well.

It's the duty of the US government to go to war to protect it's citizens and attempts by states to remove US citizens from their rights, freedoms, and liberties should be met with the full force of the US military.

As a common sense note too China and Russia would like nothing more than to break up the union via any means. People feeling like their rights are being infringed isn't cause to violate the Constitution. The Constitution provides for conventions and amendments to change the government while also specifically laying out how domestic insurrection should be treated in article IV.

Article IV completely shoots down secession. We live under the laws of the Constitution not the ideals of the Declaration of Independence.
You’re wrong. Secession was a constitutional right. Thomas Jefferson acknowledged the right when the north threatened secession after his election. The SCOTUS ruling in favor of government power isn’t exactly new

some light reading

 

AmericanViking

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At state can't decide for all the people of a state. Each person is a US citizen and can only renounce that citizenship themselves. It's why there is no mechanism for secession (because it was never intended, legally feasible, or morally correct).

It's not that the Declaration of Independence was wrong. It's just that it was a singular document that wasn't the charter or founding document for the government of the United States.

At this point the Declaration of Independence is nothing more than a lense through which to interpret the Constitution (hopefully). Other than that it has no legal bearing on the laws of the United States or the rights of it's citizens.

The people created the states and the states created the federal government all as a social contract. The federal government is in breech of said contract. What constitutional power was given to the federal government allowing them to force their own creators into submission and never leave? That’s tyranny.
 

America 1st

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The people created the states and the states created the federal government all as a social contract. The federal government is in breech of said contract. What constitutional power was given to the federal government allowing them to force their own creators into submission and never leave? That’s tyranny.
The people did. We established the Constitution and gave the federal government that power over the states. The states ratified it themselves.
We The People as a whole would have to take it away.

They aren't forced to never leave. Individual citizens can leave whenever they want.

States can't force their citizens to leave tho al la secession.
 

America 1st

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You’re wrong. Secession was a constitutional right. Thomas Jefferson acknowledged the right when the north threatened secession after his election. The SCOTUS ruling in favor of government power isn’t exactly new

some light reading

No it's not or it would be spelled out as such. Jefferson's thoughts don't trump the written text of the Constitution.

The SCOTUS (part of the Constitution, article III), article IV & V all spell out the process that would need to be undertaken for a state to leave the Union (a new amendment). We The People decided that and the states ratified it.

Secession in every form is nonsense. It's the minority trying to expert their will on We The People. A single state legislature, or even a group, doesn't trump the will of the republic as a whole. If secession were popular enough it would be ratified into an amendment and allowed. Until that point it's not different the Antifa or the rebels of 1861; those who cry the loudest and terrorize others aren't in the right.
 

AmericanViking

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The people did. We established the Constitution and gave the federal government that power over the states. The states ratified it themselves.
We The People as a whole would have to take it away.

They aren't forced to never leave. Individual citizens can leave whenever they want.

States can't force their citizens to leave tho al la secession.

Wrong. The states created the constitution and republic. You’re just flat wrong. I promise. You need to research. I used to the ink the same as you. Not one single argument has been able to disprove AT Bledsoe. Not one, they haven’t even tried to rebut his argument. They can’t.

If the constitution prohibits secession show it to me. It is not there and does not exist b
No it's not or it would be spelled out as such. Jefferson's thoughts don't trump the written text of the Constitution.

The SCOTUS (part of the Constitution, article III), article IV & V all spell out the process that would need to be undertaken for a state to leave the Union (a new amendment). We The People decided that and the states ratified it.

Secession in every form is nonsense. It's the minority trying to expert their will on We The People. A single state legislature, or even a group, doesn't trump the will of the republic as a whole. If secession were popular enough it would be ratified into an amendment and allowed. Until that point it's not different the Antifa or the rebels of 1861; those who cry the loudest and terrorize others aren't in the right.
 

America 1st

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Wrong. The states created the constitution and republic. You’re just flat wrong. I promise. You need to research. I used to the ink the same as you. Not one single argument has been able to disprove AT Bledsoe. Not one, they haven’t even tried to rebut his argument. They can’t.

If the constitution prohibits secession show it to me. It is not there and does not exist b
Agree to disagree then.

I promise you'll never convince me you aren't wrong.

The more I read on it the more I'm convinced at much. We even fought a war to settle this on top of what the Constitution says about it.
 

America 1st

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@Bledsoe's argument is a classic case of spin as well. It's uses politics of the day to skew the argument because the Constitutional case doesn't exist for secession. It's why it's commonly taught in high school to adolescents.

The Founders specifically drafted and ratified the Constitution because the Articles of Confederation gave the states too much freedom within the federal government.

Just because the Union is colloquially a compact 'between the states' does not mean each state can just withdraw from the compact because they don't like the current situation.

The compact once ratified was a binding contract that was to be enforced by all those ratifying. Once the states ratified and joined the Union it was understood that the Constitution itself would have to explicitly allow their exit. The states in the compact have a right to expect the federal government to enforce the contract since that is the role of any government (to enforce contracts between people which is all that states represent).

If states didn't want to be bound to the union then they shouldn't have joined a compact not allowing for their exit. They knew what they were ratifying and made that choice.

It's not tyranny of any sort since any individual can leave the Union whenever they so choose.

Spin on words and popular public sentiment don't trump the law on the land (The Constitution).
 

hmt5000

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I don’t see a way of doing it. They dominate the state run education system and a lot of this comes from the abundance theory where people just think “oh that guys super rich and I’m aggrieved because of my race.” Also from the feminization of the culture which is something the founders never planned for

Unconstitutionality isn’t a stopper on anything. Get enough states to Vote on an amendment then it’s now a part of the constitution. That’s also acting like that will stop what they want to do anyway, they’ve systematically violated pretty much every bill of rightl
Loss of food and electric will wake a lot of these fools up. I don't think they realize how precarious our delivery supply chain is. Small interruptions have been overcome because we can shift resources but if we get a national fuel and electric shortage we'll see a cascade effect and a lot of snowflakes are going to be shocked when they don't have soy latte frappacinos at Starbucks for the forseeable future.
 
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