AntonGoldnagel
Poster
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2024
- Messages
- 23
John 1:1
The following is not something that most Christians like to hear.
Jesus said something similar, he was put to death.
I was banned from 4 "Christian" forums for saying it.
What was the heretic message i was spreading ?
JESUS IS GOD'S SON !
Some it seems believe they can stop the truth getting out.
They will fail.
I will say it boldly even if It lands me in a modern inquisition court.
Jesus is NOT God !
According to the Bible Jesus is divine, has God's nature,is Godlike and is God's only begotten son, But he is not the Father because he is the son.
I understand that for a Trinitarian this is a very difficult concept to accept.
For that reason I'm using the Nicene's favourite scripture to explain the reason I believe this.
Joh 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was (a) God."
(Some older Bible include the article "a" or use "divine".)
Word: θεοῦ, Logos (spokesperson,voice, noun denoting kinship,association)
The logos (Christ) CANNOT be the same as the God
BECAUSE:
• The Logos had a BEGINNING.
We know the Creator had no beginning. That means the Logos must be another person.
This is not something new.
Rev 3:14 ...the BEGINNING (ar-khay) of the creation of God;
Let's analyse the next word "with"
• The Logos is "WITH"
Greek : pros (4314) = near, with.
No one can be with, near or beside himself, even God couldn't without contradicting himself.
Isa 45:6 ...there is none beside me. I am Yahweh (3068) and there is none else.
The Nicenen Creed's claim is that two or more individuals can be individuals and separate entities, but simultaneously also be ONE person.
At best this is philosophical conjecture at worst asinine gibberish. What it is NOT is scriptural.
We should keep in mind that John 1:1 is the icebreaker meant to cut through the permafrost of Trinity doubters.
In reality, it reveals the spurious-ness of the churches deception.
Many other attempt to find support in the Bible for this imaginative fabrication fail miserably as well.
However, here I mention only John1:1:
The first sentence is talking about 2 different divinities, one is eternal the other -John informs us - has a beginning.
The fact that the word is defined as Divine, God or a God is not a conceptual contradiction, since the Bible recognizes that there are many Gods and many Lords.
The statement of John has to be understood within the context, and any interpretation we give it cannot contradict it.
In vs 2 we have another indication that two persons are involved...
John 1:2
" all things- came into existence.... THROUGH..... "(Greek : pas Gin'-om-ahee Dee-ah' dee-ah' 01223)
Through whom ? The Logos!
If Logos was God John would have said created "BY" the Logos not "THROUGH".
Christ is the MEDIATOR between God an man. Thus God created the world "using" the Logos.
That is the reason we communicate (pray) THROUGH the mediator (Christ) TO God, NOT to Christ, because the Logos is a mediator.(1 Tim 2:5)
Believing that Jesus is God (the father).
Would require accepting the following premises:
JESUS
• Gave birth to himself.
Since he supposedly is also the father.
• Resurrected himself. (from nonexistence) keep in mind omnipotence depends upon being ALIVE.
The Bible states that the dead cannot do anything, and that God is called the immortal God, in other words God CANNOT DIE, however Jesus died because he is not God.
God cannot contradict himself and does not play paradoxical games.
• That he gave himself a superior position.
If Jesus was part of a Godhead he would already have this position.
• Gave himself the Holy spirit at baptism.
According to the Nicene creed, Jesus already had the Holy Spirit.
• Is His own mediator.
It's impossible to mediate with yourself except if God had a split personality disorder.
• Is with himself or sits besides himself.
Again it would mean God had multiple personality dissociative issues.
• God....IS our BROTHER.
Jesus stated Christians are his brothers. God does NOT have brothers, He only has son's
• gave himself eternal life.
Again, as part of a Trinity he supposedly already has eternal life.
• God is father and son, YET one person.
That means the son begat the Father.
Or/also means that the father begat a son that already existed, I feel silly just writing this.
Keep in mind that this is what the trinity doctrine wants us to believe when we accept this teaching.
How much more inconsistencies do we need ?
All These premises, if accepted, are a denial, not only, of the inspired truth that Jesus is the SON OF GOD, but also of common sense. It means accepting a doctrine that is fabricated using the quirks of bible translations and interpretations that contradicts the bible narrative.
I put forth that the Trinity is a deviation from God's inspired word and that teachers of this doctrine are leading Christendom on the broad road away from worship of the the ONE true God.
The following is not something that most Christians like to hear.
Jesus said something similar, he was put to death.
I was banned from 4 "Christian" forums for saying it.
What was the heretic message i was spreading ?
JESUS IS GOD'S SON !
Some it seems believe they can stop the truth getting out.
They will fail.
I will say it boldly even if It lands me in a modern inquisition court.
Jesus is NOT God !
According to the Bible Jesus is divine, has God's nature,is Godlike and is God's only begotten son, But he is not the Father because he is the son.
I understand that for a Trinitarian this is a very difficult concept to accept.
For that reason I'm using the Nicene's favourite scripture to explain the reason I believe this.
Joh 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was (a) God."
(Some older Bible include the article "a" or use "divine".)
Word: θεοῦ, Logos (spokesperson,voice, noun denoting kinship,association)
The logos (Christ) CANNOT be the same as the God
BECAUSE:
• The Logos had a BEGINNING.
We know the Creator had no beginning. That means the Logos must be another person.
This is not something new.
Rev 3:14 ...the BEGINNING (ar-khay) of the creation of God;
Let's analyse the next word "with"
• The Logos is "WITH"
Greek : pros (4314) = near, with.
No one can be with, near or beside himself, even God couldn't without contradicting himself.
Isa 45:6 ...there is none beside me. I am Yahweh (3068) and there is none else.
The Nicenen Creed's claim is that two or more individuals can be individuals and separate entities, but simultaneously also be ONE person.
At best this is philosophical conjecture at worst asinine gibberish. What it is NOT is scriptural.
We should keep in mind that John 1:1 is the icebreaker meant to cut through the permafrost of Trinity doubters.
In reality, it reveals the spurious-ness of the churches deception.
Many other attempt to find support in the Bible for this imaginative fabrication fail miserably as well.
However, here I mention only John1:1:
The first sentence is talking about 2 different divinities, one is eternal the other -John informs us - has a beginning.
The fact that the word is defined as Divine, God or a God is not a conceptual contradiction, since the Bible recognizes that there are many Gods and many Lords.
The statement of John has to be understood within the context, and any interpretation we give it cannot contradict it.
In vs 2 we have another indication that two persons are involved...
John 1:2
" all things- came into existence.... THROUGH..... "(Greek : pas Gin'-om-ahee Dee-ah' dee-ah' 01223)
Through whom ? The Logos!
If Logos was God John would have said created "BY" the Logos not "THROUGH".
Christ is the MEDIATOR between God an man. Thus God created the world "using" the Logos.
That is the reason we communicate (pray) THROUGH the mediator (Christ) TO God, NOT to Christ, because the Logos is a mediator.(1 Tim 2:5)
Believing that Jesus is God (the father).
Would require accepting the following premises:
JESUS
• Gave birth to himself.
Since he supposedly is also the father.
• Resurrected himself. (from nonexistence) keep in mind omnipotence depends upon being ALIVE.
The Bible states that the dead cannot do anything, and that God is called the immortal God, in other words God CANNOT DIE, however Jesus died because he is not God.
God cannot contradict himself and does not play paradoxical games.
• That he gave himself a superior position.
If Jesus was part of a Godhead he would already have this position.
• Gave himself the Holy spirit at baptism.
According to the Nicene creed, Jesus already had the Holy Spirit.
• Is His own mediator.
It's impossible to mediate with yourself except if God had a split personality disorder.
• Is with himself or sits besides himself.
Again it would mean God had multiple personality dissociative issues.
• God....IS our BROTHER.
Jesus stated Christians are his brothers. God does NOT have brothers, He only has son's
• gave himself eternal life.
Again, as part of a Trinity he supposedly already has eternal life.
• God is father and son, YET one person.
That means the son begat the Father.
Or/also means that the father begat a son that already existed, I feel silly just writing this.
Keep in mind that this is what the trinity doctrine wants us to believe when we accept this teaching.
How much more inconsistencies do we need ?
All These premises, if accepted, are a denial, not only, of the inspired truth that Jesus is the SON OF GOD, but also of common sense. It means accepting a doctrine that is fabricated using the quirks of bible translations and interpretations that contradicts the bible narrative.
I put forth that the Trinity is a deviation from God's inspired word and that teachers of this doctrine are leading Christendom on the broad road away from worship of the the ONE true God.
