Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

Health Plan "Surcharges" for Unvaccinated

PowerMEGA

God Fearing Patriot
Founder
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
641
My wife's employer (Progressive) just sent out an email about their upcoming health insurance enrollment. They are going to charge unvaccinated people $25/paycheck ($650/year). No consideration for documented prior infection either.

Is this a lawsuit waiting to happen?
 

Rebarcock.

Your(e)humble servant
Founder
Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
10,431
My wife's employer (Progressive) just sent out an email about their upcoming health insurance enrollment. They are going to charge unvaccinated people $25/paycheck ($650/year). No consideration for documented prior infection either.

Is this a lawsuit waiting to happen?
That is Progressives prerogative. At our shops is has not been dictated to us by our health insurance carrier that rates will rise for unvaccinated persons. So this is essentially a money grab to lower their costs paid towards premiums
 

PowerMEGA

God Fearing Patriot
Founder
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
641
They currently offer a "discount" for people who are non-smokers. Not sure how they enforce that though. Also, they do self-insure their own health care plan. Not sure if that matters either.
 

AgEngDawg

Legendary
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
8,607
They currently offer a "discount" for people who are non-smokers. Not sure how they enforce that though. Also, they do self-insure their own health care plan. Not sure if that matters either.

You could offer a discount for cutting out a lot of risky behaviors, but laws would prevent you from doing that.
 

PowerMEGA

God Fearing Patriot
Founder
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
641
You could offer a discount for cutting out a lot of risky behaviors, but laws would prevent you from doing that.
Yeah, exactly. At a certain level, I'm OK with the idea that certain people pay more than other people, based on their behavior. This strikes me as BS though. The fact that prior infection is not considered is a huge red flag to me.

Where does this stop? Different rates based on BMI? How about if you have type 2 diabetes you pay more? How about if you've ever been in rehab for drug use? All of these things are behavior-based risk factors, and I would argue that something like BMI is several orders of magnitude more consequential than vaccination status.
 

ChicagoFats

Legendary
Founder
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
4,663
Yeah, exactly. At a certain level, I'm OK with the idea that certain people pay more than other people, based on their behavior. This strikes me as BS though. The fact that prior infection is not considered is a huge red flag to me.

Where does this stop? Different rates based on BMI? How about if you have type 2 diabetes you pay more? How about if you've ever been in rehab for drug use? All of these things are behavior-based risk factors, and I would argue that something like BMI is several orders of magnitude more consequential than vaccination status.
It will most likley be a class action lawsuit. Several people would have to join together and challenge the policy. It seems like there would be a lawyer out there who would take this ..... but then again there doesn't seem to have been much resistance to it so far
 

Thasubliminal

Elite
Founder
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
583
My wife's employer (Progressive) just sent out an email about their upcoming health insurance enrollment. They are going to charge unvaccinated people $25/paycheck ($650/year). No consideration for documented prior infection either.

Is this a lawsuit waiting to happen?
Is it a renewal or are they unilaterally changing it?
 

ChicagoFats

Legendary
Founder
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
4,663
My wife's employer (Progressive) just sent out an email about their upcoming health insurance enrollment. They are going to charge unvaccinated people $25/paycheck ($650/year). No consideration for documented prior infection either.

Is this a lawsuit waiting to happen?

I wonder if they are claiming that it cost $25 / check to test and keep up with that? That could be an angle they could win.

But if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread that would kind of refute the point above. hmmm
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
Founder
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
16,097
Yeah, exactly. At a certain level, I'm OK with the idea that certain people pay more than other people, based on their behavior. This strikes me as BS though. The fact that prior infection is not considered is a huge red flag to me.

Where does this stop? Different rates based on BMI? How about if you have type 2 diabetes you pay more? How about if you've ever been in rehab for drug use? All of these things are behavior-based risk factors, and I would argue that something like BMI is several orders of magnitude more consequential than vaccination status.
People across here and board we shall not name have been arguing for such a structure for over a decade.

Feel bad for you and your situation OP.
 

America 1st

The best poster on the board! Trumps lover! 🇺🇸
Founder
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
16,097
I wonder if they are claiming that it cost $25 / check to test and keep up with that? That could be an angle they could win.

But if the vaccine doesn't prevent spread that would kind of refute the point above. hmmm
Wouldn’t they just need data to support the notion that the vax keeps there cost down because they don’t have to pay for hospital visits?

Even if we all think the data is bogus they’ve been peddling that angle for a minute now.
 

ChicagoFats

Legendary
Founder
Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
4,663
Wouldn’t they just need data to support the notion that the vax keeps there cost down because they don’t have to pay for hospital visits?

Even if we all think the data is bogus they’ve been peddling that angle for a minute now.

Good point, I guess if they could prove that the vaccination keeps their costs down they could justify mandating.
 

PowerMEGA

God Fearing Patriot
Founder
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
641
Is it a renewal or are they unilaterally changing it?
Progressive underwrites their own health insurance. They do not purchase a plan from an outside provider. I guess you could call it a renewal, but they also have control over the pricing.

People across here and board we shall not name have been arguing for such a structure for over a decade.

Feel bad for you and your situation OP.
In certain ways, I'm not opposed to pricing behaviors like this. To me, it makes sense that someone who runs a half marathon once a year should pay less for health care than someone who eats fast food and doesn't exercise.

My concern with this particular policy is based on these issues:
1. Ignoring prior infection. We seem to be the only country in the world that does this. The overwhelming evidence at this point, especially with regards to the Delta variant, is that natural immunity is better. A vaccinated person is more likely to have a symptomatic infection, more likely to have a severe infection, and much more likely to have a death than someone with natural immunity experiencing a subsequent infection.
2. The BMI example I gave is by design. I bet the present value of future health care costs for an obese person is an order of magnitude greater than the present value of future costs of an unvaccinated person. You can even put aside the fact that an obese person is much more likely to have a severe Covid infection than a non-obese person. If the decision was really in the interests of the health and well being of the employees, and to get premiums inline with actual costs to the company, then the BMI metric would be an obvious choice.
 

GarnetPild

Legendary
Founder
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
3,914
Progressive underwrites their own health insurance. They do not purchase a plan from an outside provider. I guess you could call it a renewal, but they also have control over the pricing.


In certain ways, I'm not opposed to pricing behaviors like this. To me, it makes sense that someone who runs a half marathon once a year should pay less for health care than someone who eats fast food and doesn't exercise.

My concern with this particular policy is based on these issues:
1. Ignoring prior infection. We seem to be the only country in the world that does this. The overwhelming evidence at this point, especially with regards to the Delta variant, is that natural immunity is better. A vaccinated person is more likely to have a symptomatic infection, more likely to have a severe infection, and much more likely to have a death than someone with natural immunity experiencing a subsequent infection.
2. The BMI example I gave is by design. I bet the present value of future health care costs for an obese person is an order of magnitude greater than the present value of future costs of an unvaccinated person. You can even put aside the fact that an obese person is much more likely to have a severe Covid infection than a non-obese person. If the decision was really in the interests of the health and well being of the employees, and to get premiums inline with actual costs to the company, then the BMI metric would be an obvious choice.


Also, BMI is different because there are only negative health impacts from being a lard-ass. There are many people who cannot take the vaccine because it may be harmful to their health, due to some pre-existing condition. Those people would be punished by your wife's employer, for actually making a decision with their doctor that is GOOD for their health. Makes zero sense, but nothing about how we've reacted to covid has made sense. Mass psychosis.
 

PowerMEGA

God Fearing Patriot
Founder
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
641
My wife's health plan covers her and our children. I get my own health plan from my employer (I work at a different place). Our plan renewal is normally in March, so I'll have to wait and see if there is any fuckery regarding additional premiums, etc.
 

SwooshNole

Poster
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
4
Everything I’ve read online says companies cannot charge more for health issues, life choices, etc due to Hippa and the ACA.
They can offer “wellness incentives though, but they have to make accommodations or other offers for people who cannot do the wellness incentive.

obviously I don’t know if that’s true.

the email though specifically says it’s a surcharge or fee for anyone who is not fully vaccinated.
 

PowerMEGA

God Fearing Patriot
Founder
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
641
Everything I’ve read online says companies cannot charge more for health issues, life choices, etc due to Hippa and the ACA.
They can offer “wellness incentives though, but they have to make accommodations or other offers for people who cannot do the wellness incentive.

obviously I don’t know if that’s true.

the email though specifically says it’s a surcharge or fee for anyone who is not fully vaccinated.
It sounds like you're employed there too, is that correct? I know that email was more of an announcement, and I think there are more details to follow.
 

SwooshNole

Poster
Joined
Jan 8, 2021
Messages
4
It sounds like you're employed there too, is that correct? I know that email was more of an announcement, and I think there are more details to follow.

Yeah it was just an announcement. Curious to see how exactly it’s implemented.

There is an anonymous survey coming up, I’m sure there will be some nice comments they get from the comments section.

And yes.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom