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End of the Second Amendment

TheResister

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The Republican Party Platform is now silently pulling its commitment to the Second Amendment back, leaving the door for anti-gun Trump to enact his agenda:

 

Rebarcock.

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The Republican Party Platform is now silently pulling its commitment to the Second Amendment back, leaving the door for anti-gun Trump to enact his agenda:

To do that 3/4 of the states would have to ratify the ammendment repealing the 2nd after a constitutional convention. Never happen dickose
 

Liquid Reigns

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The 2A isn't high on the list for voters. Relying on some authors opinion and assumption only makes an ass out of you.

Notice that after the attempt on Trump there was also no call for banning "assault weapons" like the Democrats cry about anytime there is a shooting. I wonder why that is.

Trump and the Republicans aren't going to do anything regarding the 2A.

Resister should like Trump, after all the article in reference states the following:

Trump staked out a similar position during his 2016 race, calling himself "a big Second Amendment person," in contrast with then-President Barack Obama, "a non–Second Amendment person." Asked whether he supported new gun laws to prevent mass shootings, he replied, "The gun laws have nothing to do with this. This isn't guns. This is about really mental illness."

The Resister's claim that the Republican Party is silently pulling back its commitment to the Second Amendment and that Trump is anti-gun lacks strong evidence. The party's platform and public statements still support gun rights, and Trump's record shows a mixed but generally pro-Second Amendment stance. Therefore, the assertion appears to be more speculative than factual.
 
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TheResister

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To do that 3/4 of the states would have to ratify the ammendment repealing the 2nd after a constitutional convention. Never happen dickose
No, it will NOT take any such constitutional amendment. Of course, given the right's aversion to addressing the subject, the left will have that kind of support in another two presidential election cycles. But, how far can gun control go?

The gun Rights lobby ignores parts of court decisions that go against them. For example, they like to invoke the Heller decision. What did the Heller ruling really say?

"(2) Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose"
District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

Trump, if elected, WILL find out what those limitations are. If he doesn't get elected, the left will definitely pursue the opening to test what can be done to separate the people from their firearms. Trump would definitely be more successful at passing gun control just like his predecessors like Ronald Reagan and King George the Bush were. With neither major party fighting for their Rights in their respective party platforms, the gun owners are on their own.
 

Liquid Reigns

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"A right by its very nature, is limiting"

While it's true that not all forms of gun control require a constitutional amendment, significant restrictions that undermine Second Amendment rights would likely face substantial legal challenges. The Supreme Court, through decisions like Heller, has upheld the individual right to possess firearms while allowing for reasonable regulations. These regulations, however, cannot fundamentally negate the core right established in these rulings.

Predicting future political shifts is speculative. Changing public opinion and political dynamics could lead to more support for gun control, but there is also strong and organized opposition from gun rights advocates. Any substantial changes would face significant resistance and require broad consensus.

The Heller decision does acknowledge that Second Amendment rights are not unlimited, but it also affirms an individual's right to possess firearms for lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. This balance between individual rights and reasonable regulations is key.

While previous Republican presidents have enacted certain gun control measures, Trump has consistently positioned himself as a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. His actions, such as appointing pro-Second Amendment judges and opposing sweeping gun control legislation, suggest that significant gun control measures are unlikely under his leadership.

The assertion that neither major party is defending gun rights is not entirely accurate. The Republican Party has consistently included strong pro-Second Amendment language in its platform, and many Republican politicians campaign on protecting gun rights.

In conclusion, the Republican Party and Trump have not shown any significant shift away from supporting the Second Amendment. Assertions to the contrary lack substantial evidence and fail to consider the broader context of their actions and statements.
 
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TheResister

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DC isn't a state first off. 2nd it is correct
United States Supreme Court decisions are binding in every state of the United States.

What you will see is a great deflection. Bump stocks, contrary to popular belief, were not deemed to be legal. What the high Court ruled is that the BATFE doesn't have the authority to create legislation. NOTHING is going to stop Trump from lobbying Congress for his liberal anti-gun agenda.
 

Liquid Reigns

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United States Supreme Court decisions are binding in every state of the United States.

What you will see is a great deflection. Bump stocks, contrary to popular belief, were not deemed to be legal. What the high Court ruled is that the BATFE doesn't have the authority to create legislation. NOTHING is going to stop Trump from lobbying Congress for his liberal anti-gun agenda.
You are correct that Supreme Court decisions are binding in every state, including the Heller decision, which established an individual right to possess firearms for lawful purposes such as self-defense within the home. This ensures that any laws or regulations must respect this fundamental right.

Regarding bump stocks, the Supreme Court’s decision emphasized that the BATFE cannot create legislation, highlighting the separation of powers. This does not mean bump stocks are broadly deemed legal, but it underscores that significant regulatory changes need congressional approval. Congress would have to pass a law to ban bump stocks, until then they are legal to posses.

The claim that Trump might lobby for a liberal anti-gun agenda is speculative. Historically, Trump has presented himself as a strong supporter of the Second Amendment. He has expressed support for gun rights, appointed pro-Second Amendment judges, and consistently defended the right to bear arms in his public statements. While the bump stock re-classification was a specific action enacted by BATFE, it does not indicate a broader anti-gun agenda.

Predicting future political dynamics involves speculation, but any substantial changes to gun rights would face significant resistance and require broad consensus from Congress, given the current polarization on the issue.

In conclusion, the Supreme Court’s binding decisions, the limits of regulatory authority, and Trump's historical support for the Second Amendment suggest that significant anti-gun measures are unlikely. Assertions to the contrary lack substantial evidence and fail to consider the broader context of his actions and statements.
 
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MechaJutaro

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Not surprising. The 1st Amendment has been getting clobbered more viciously than Depp at the hands of Heard for close to a decade now https://thefreespeechforum.com/thre...t-to-the-free-speech-union.24807/#post-526046 , and this the right upon which all others are based

The idea that the remainder of both TBOR and The Constitution wouldn't soon also be pulverized is almost too insane to warrant much discussion
 

TheResister

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Not surprising. The 1st Amendment has been getting clobbered more viciously than Depp at the hands of Heard for close to a decade now https://thefreespeechforum.com/thre...t-to-the-free-speech-union.24807/#post-526046 , and this the right upon which all others are based

The idea that the remainder of both TBOR and The Constitution wouldn't soon also be pulverized is almost too insane to warrant much discussion

And yet this DOES merit that kind of discussion. The Republicans have never cared about the Right to keep and bear Arms (Reagan and King George the Bush being rabid anti-gunners). Trump has a history of being an anti-gun fanatic:

https://resisters.freeforums.net/thread/179/plain-truth-donald-trump (see especially replies #6, 7 and 44)

Note that I was making the observations at least two years BEFORE news pundits came to the same conclusions. If we allow the politicians to attack even ONE constitutional guarantee then all of our unalienable Rights are at stake.
 

Shaun52

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And yet this DOES merit that kind of discussion. The Republicans have never cared about the Right to keep and bear Arms (Reagan and King George the Bush being rabid anti-gunners). Trump has a history of being an anti-gun fanatic:

https://resisters.freeforums.net/thread/179/plain-truth-donald-trump (see especially replies #6, 7 and 44)

Note that I was making the observations at least two years BEFORE news pundits came to the same conclusions. If we allow the politicians to attack even ONE constitutional guarantee then all of our unalienable Rights are at stake.
You know what merits discussing Fed Boi?

Were you in Butler PA trying to kill Trump last week?
 

TheResister

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You know what merits discussing Fed Boi?

Were you in Butler PA trying to kill Trump last week?
You're about an idiot. I've told your dumb ass that I don't take that even in joking. You told me to name the time and the place. I did and you tapped out. You shouldn't fuck with grown men and project what you are.

Were YOU in Butler?
 

TheResister

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It is unfortunate that we have trolls and little boys that want to dominate every thread with their childish bullshit. The reason this country is falling apart at the seams is due to dipwads like those attempting to derail this thread.

The Republican Party is slowly returning to their liberal Establishment roots and the disinformation artists that like to squelch any serious discussions are busy trying to see if they can halt the discussions. Unless I'm missing something those criticizing EVERY thread I participate in with this jailhouse psychology, are afraid I'm about to say something you weren't supposed to hear.

The only other explanation for those people is that they are in prison and have Internet privileges. You can take this from someone that has been stalked by the same federal informant for over 15 years: If Shaun isn't a rat for the feds, he or she is a convict. You can take that to the bank. Insofar as the counter allegations, Shaun called me out, told me to name the time and place. When I did, the chickenshit backed down and ran like a scalded dog.
 

Shaun52

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You're about an idiot. I've told your dumb ass that I don't take that even in joking. You told me to name the time and the place. I did and you tapped out. You shouldn't fuck with grown men and project what you are.

Were YOU in Butler?
Bitch I would end you in a heartbeat. Please know that. I would then spit on your grave Gay Boi treasonous faggot.
 

Shaun52

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It is unfortunate that we have trolls and little boys that want to dominate every thread with their childish bullshit. The reason this country is falling apart at the seams is due to dipwads like those attempting to derail this thread.

The Republican Party is slowly returning to their liberal Establishment roots and the disinformation artists that like to squelch any serious discussions are busy trying to see if they can halt the discussions. Unless I'm missing something those criticizing EVERY thread I participate in with this jailhouse psychology, are afraid I'm about to say something you weren't supposed to hear.

The only other explanation for those people is that they are in prison and have Internet privileges. You can take this from someone that has been stalked by the same federal informant for over 15 years: If Shaun isn't a rat for the feds, he or she is a convict. You can take that to the bank. Insofar as the counter allegations, Shaun called me out, told me to name the time and place. When I did, the chickenshit backed down and ran like a scalded dog.
No one’s driving to Jawja to kill your redneck retarded ass.
 

Shaun52

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You are the one who told me to name the time and the place. You threatening to kill me? And you call me retarded? You're a chickenshit and everybody on this board knows it.
EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!!!!!

Listen here you stupid fucking keyboard commando retard. I have nothing to prove to you. You OBVIOUSLY have something to prove which screams soy bitch. I’ll place my 22 years in the Corps, combat awards WITH VALOR and a MMA black belt instructor up against your retarded ass any day of the week.

What’s your history FAGGOT?
 

TheResister

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EVERYBODY KNOWS IT!!!!!

Listen here you stupid fucking keyboard commando retard. I have nothing to prove to you. You OBVIOUSLY have something to prove which screams soy bitch. I’ll place my 22 years in the Corps, combat awards WITH VALOR and a MMA black belt instructor up against your retarded ass any day of the week.

What’s your history FAGGOT?

You told me to name the time and place. I did. YOU are the fucking keyboard commando. If you had nothing to prove, you wouldn't be such a chickenshit, trying to browbeat people on the Internet.

Only a retard would get on the Internet and talk about "22 years in the Corps", etc., etc. I told you before, you are the son of whore that slept with everything from sunset to midnight and your father was a drug addicted bi sexual that was little more than a sperm donor. You told me to name the time and place. Now, what? Your broke ass can't afford the trip? Or are you just plain gutless?

You're so busy slinging shit and trying to make everybody think you're a bad ass that you don't have enough common sense to engage in a productive conversation. You're too stupid to insult and too lazy to fight.
 

TheResister

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With the Republican Party dropping their support for the Second Amendment and both parties ready to put anti-gunners into the Black House... I mean White House, it's time for those who own firearms to start thinking about their future.

I noticed that bump stocks are back on the market so people are buying them again and thinking they've "won" something. The states will outlaw them and the manufacturers will give up the purchasers names and addresses. Then there will be confiscations. Start thinking about the future now. Once they reignite the bump stock ban it will be any feature the progs don't like until you won't be able to own anything except a small rock.
 

Shaun52

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You told me to name the time and place. I did. YOU are the fucking keyboard commando. If you had nothing to prove, you wouldn't be such a chickenshit, trying to browbeat people on the Internet.

Only a retard would get on the Internet and talk about "22 years in the Corps", etc., etc. I told you before, you are the son of whore that slept with everything from sunset to midnight and your father was a drug addicted bi sexual that was little more than a sperm donor. You told me to name the time and place. Now, what? Your broke ass can't afford the trip? Or are you just plain gutless?

You're so busy slinging shit and trying to make everybody think you're a bad ass that you don't have enough common sense to engage in a productive conversation. You're too stupid to insult and too lazy to fight.
So you literally just made half of that up.

You seem to be such the bad ass, come to meet me tough guy.

No one wants to engage in a conversation with you. That’s literally why you start these threads on your own and talk to yourself in them.
 

Shaun52

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With the Republican Party dropping their support for the Second Amendment and both parties ready to put anti-gunners into the Black House... I mean White House, it's time for those who own firearms to start thinking about their future.

I noticed that bump stocks are back on the market so people are buying them again and thinking they've "won" something. The states will outlaw them and the manufacturers will give up the purchasers names and addresses. Then there will be confiscations. Start thinking about the future now. Once they reignite the bump stock ban it will be any feature the progs don't like until you won't be able to own anything except a small rock.
Exhibit A of talking to yourself like a dumbass.
 

Teeaichsee

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we lost the right to keep and bear arms a long time ago,, you see once a permit is required it is no longer a right,,,we do not have the right to keep nor bear arms so whats the argument here? Permits=Not a right ! the real question should be how do we get that right back?
 

TheResister

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So you literally just made half of that up.

You seem to be such the bad ass, come to meet me tough guy.

No one wants to engage in a conversation with you. That’s literally why you start these threads on your own and talk to yourself in them.
I haven't made anything up. You will always notice that there are people out there, literally starved to comment on what I write. When you're doing that fed boi bullshit, there is no conversation to be had.

Dude, YOU'RE the wannabe bad ass that challenged me. When I accepted, YOU TAPPED OUT.
 

Shaun52

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I haven't made anything up. You will always notice that there are people out there, literally starved to comment on what I write. When you're doing that fed boi bullshit, there is no conversation to be had.

Dude, YOU'RE the wannabe bad ass that challenged me. When I accepted, YOU TAPPED OUT.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Starving to comment 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻

Hey fag next time I roll through that shit hole of a state I’ll hit you up.

Let me see a picture of your white pasty ass
 

TheResister

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we lost the right to keep and bear arms a long time ago,, you see once a permit is required it is no longer a right,,,we do not have the right to keep nor bear arms so whats the argument here? Permits=Not a right ! the real question should be how do we get that right back?

I do not have a permit nor is one required for a Preamble Citizen and none required in the state I live in. I've quit filling out Form 4473 to purchase and will build my own from car parts if necessary.

Yes, permits / licenses are permission from the government to do that which is otherwise illegal to do. When you need a permit or license to purchase a firearm, it is a "right" (and I'll explain that). A "right" is a grant from the government to do (or not do) something. Then there are unalienable Rights. An unalienable Right is above the law since the government didn't grant it.

The first court decisions that were handed found that the Right to keep and bear Arms determined that the Right to keep and bear Arms was a preexisting Right that was absolute, unqualified, and above the law. See this as an example:


Thank you for reminding me. There are at least a dozen court rulings I omitted in that link. The real deal is, the United States Supreme Court over-ruled their own rulings. The founders warned against that practice, admonishing us to only change the Constitution by an amendment.

I represent The Resisters. We have a manual that explains this subject and tells you what you have to do to reclaim your Rights.
 

Liquid Reigns

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I do not have a permit nor is one required for a Preamble Citizen and none required in the state I live in. I've quit filling out Form 4473 to purchase and will build my own from car parts if necessary.

Yes, permits / licenses are permission from the government to do that which is otherwise illegal to do. When you need a permit or license to purchase a firearm, it is a "right" (and I'll explain that). A "right" is a grant from the government to do (or not do) something. Then there are unalienable Rights. An unalienable Right is above the law since the government didn't grant it.

The first court decisions that were handed found that the Right to keep and bear Arms determined that the Right to keep and bear Arms was a preexisting Right that was absolute, unqualified, and above the law. See this as an example:


Thank you for reminding me. There are at least a dozen court rulings I omitted in that link. The real deal is, the United States Supreme Court over-ruled their own rulings. The founders warned against that practice, admonishing us to only change the Constitution by an amendment.

I represent The Resisters. We have a manual that explains this subject and tells you what you have to do to reclaim your Rights.
Preamble Citizen? LOL So you're one of "THOSE" clowns. Individuals who believe they are immune from government laws and regulations. They often use pseudolegal theories and conspiracy narratives to justify their beliefs and actions. That explains your false and distorted legal arguments.

Why don't you point out that you got most of your understanding from Wiki? Where in you fail to point out even Blackstone (whom you like to quote) states that "the right to keep and bear arms" is "subject to their suitability and allowance by law". Why are you exclaiming state court decisions (Bliss 1822 and Cockrum 1859) as your end all be all argument? They hold NO weight at the federal level.

Finally you get to Cruikshank where you misread and exclaim things out of the context it was written. (In United States v. Cruikshank the Supreme Court could have over-ruled any of the state holdings. Instead they said that the Right to keep and bear Arms is not dependent upon the Constitution for its existence. In other words, the Right was a pre-existing Right. In short, the Right to keep and bear Arms (as well as all Rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights) was held to be inherent, natural, pre-existing, absolute, God given, irrevocable, unqualified, unalienable and above the law making power.)

All Cruickshank did was state the right was a pre-existing right. In Cruikshank v. United States, the Supreme Court ruled that the 2nd Amendment only restricts the federal government from infringing upon the right to keep and bear arms, leaving state governments and private individuals free to regulate or restrict this right as they see fit.

All rights, including pre-existing and in/unalienable rights, can be subject to regulations that ensure public safety and order without negating the core right.

Historical interpretations of the Second Amendment have varied. While some early state court decisions supported broad interpretations of the right to keep and bear arms, others recognized the need for regulations. For example, in United States v. Cruikshank (1876), the US Supreme Court acknowledged the right to bear arms but also noted that it was not unlimited.

The Supreme Court has the authority to interpret the Constitution, and its decisions can evolve based on new cases and societal changes. This process is essential for addressing contemporary issues while adhering to constitutional principles. The founders designed the amendment process to make changes to the Constitution deliberate and thoughtful, ensuring stability and continuity.

While your Resistance Manual may provide valuable insights from a specific ideological perspective (mainly your failed understanding of law and how things actually are), it’s crucial for you to critically evaluate your claims against established legal principles and historical context. Reclaiming rights within the legal framework involves understanding and engaging with the current legal and political systems, advocating for changes through lawful means.

In conclusion, while permits and regulations may impose some limits, the core right to keep and bear arms remains protected under the Constitution. The ongoing debate about the extent of this right is part of the broader discussion about balancing individual freedoms with public safety.
 
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we lost the right to keep and bear arms a long time ago,, you see once a permit is required it is no longer a right,,,we do not have the right to keep nor bear arms so whats the argument here? Permits=Not a right ! the real question should be how do we get that right back?
In my state of NC, we require no permit to carry a gun......but i agree with the end of your statement.

I did not know that @Shaun52 was a veteran, although a cocksucker, I wish we got on better terms earlier in my involvement here............but we should be able to have any weapon we qualifed or trained with in the military.

The 2nd specifically protects military style arms, and nothing else, an ironic twist indeed.
 

TheResister

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In my state of NC, we require no permit to carry a gun......but i agree with the end of your statement.

I did not know that @Shaun52 was a veteran, although a cocksucker, I wish we got on better terms earlier in my involvement here............but we should be able to have any weapon we qualifed or trained with in the military.

The 2nd specifically protects military style arms, and nothing else, an ironic twist indeed.

Actually, there are some things to consider. The first time the United States Supreme Court addressed these issues regarding the Second Amendment, they held:

"The Government of the United States, although it is, within the scope of its powers, supreme and beyond the States, can neither grant nor secure to its citizens rights or privileges which are not expressly or by implication placed under its jurisdiction. All that cannot be so granted or secured are left to the exclusive protection of the States.
...The right there specified is that of "bearing arms for a lawful purpose." This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence
."
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876)
The holdings of the United States Supreme Court are the law. IF the statutes, lower court holdings, etc. conflict with the United States Supreme Court holdings, those statutes and lower court holdings are invalidated. Correct? Conversely, if the high Court doesn't specifically over-rule the standing precedents of lower courts, etc. then those statutes and rulings are valid law. Correct? The issue is then figuring out how lower courts interpreted the Second Amendment in that period before Cruikshank.

In 1822 in the case of Bliss v. Commonwealth it was said of the Right:

As noted in the Northern Kentucky Law Review Second Amendment Symposium: "Rights in Conflict in the 1980s, vol. 10, no. 1, 1982, p. 155, "The first state court decision resulting from the "right to bear arms" issue was Bliss v. Commonwealth. The court held that "the right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State must be preserved entire", ..." "This holding was unique because it stated that the "right to bear arms is absolute and unqualified."

In 1846 the Georgia Supreme Court held:

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers, trampled under foot by Charles I. and his two wicked sons and successors, reestablished by the revolution of 1688, conveyed to this land of liberty by the colonists, and finally incorporated conspicuously in our own Magna Charta!

In 1859, in the state of Texas, the state held:

“The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the “high powers” delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.’ A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power." Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859) Granted, this court did specify that "arms" referred to those arms carried by a militiaman that were being protected. Yet the Right to carry arms in lawful defense of one's self would logically be included.

So, what happened in 2008 when the United States Supreme Court held that the right is "not unlimited?" The answer is simply that the high Court has gotten into the habit of reinterpreting their own holdings. Previously, the courts ruled that the Right to keep and bear Arms is an absolute Right, preexisting, natural, above the law, inherent, irrevocable and the Right is not granted by the government. It is an extension of your Right to Life. But, the courts applied the illegally ratified 14th Amendment to the equation and tried to claim that the high Court bestowed the Right on you. They even used the word unlimited as it had not been legally defined. What can you do? I'm only giving you some bare bones; however, there ARE things you can do right now that won't get you thrown into jail or get you sent to Hell. I'll save that just in case this is considered TLDR
 

Liquid Reigns

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Actually, there are some things to consider. The first time the United States Supreme Court addressed these issues regarding the Second Amendment, they held:

"The Government of the United States, although it is, within the scope of its powers, supreme and beyond the States, can neither grant nor secure to its citizens rights or privileges which are not expressly or by implication placed under its jurisdiction. All that cannot be so granted or secured are left to the exclusive protection of the States.
...The right there specified is that of "bearing arms for a lawful purpose." This is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence
."
United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1876)
The holdings of the United States Supreme Court are the law. IF the statutes, lower court holdings, etc. conflict with the United States Supreme Court holdings, those statutes and lower court holdings are invalidated. Correct? Conversely, if the high Court doesn't specifically over-rule the standing precedents of lower courts, etc. then those statutes and rulings are valid law. Correct? The issue is then figuring out how lower courts interpreted the Second Amendment in that period before Cruikshank.

In 1822 in the case of Bliss v. Commonwealth it was said of the Right:

As noted in the Northern Kentucky Law Review Second Amendment Symposium: "Rights in Conflict in the 1980s, vol. 10, no. 1, 1982, p. 155, "The first state court decision resulting from the "right to bear arms" issue was Bliss v. Commonwealth. The court held that "the right of citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State must be preserved entire", ..." "This holding was unique because it stated that the "right to bear arms is absolute and unqualified."

In 1846 the Georgia Supreme Court held:

"The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed." The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree; and all this for the important end to be attained: the rearing up and qualifying a well-regulated militia, so vitally necessary to the security of a free State. Our opinion is, that any law, State or Federal, is repugnant to the Constitution, and void, which contravenes this right, originally belonging to our forefathers, trampled under foot by Charles I. and his two wicked sons and successors, reestablished by the revolution of 1688, conveyed to this land of liberty by the colonists, and finally incorporated conspicuously in our own Magna Charta!

In 1859, in the state of Texas, the state held:

“The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the “high powers” delegated directly to the citizen, and is excepted out of the general powers of government.’ A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power." Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859) Granted, this court did specify that "arms" referred to those arms carried by a militiaman that were being protected. Yet the Right to carry arms in lawful defense of one's self would logically be included.

So, what happened in 2008 when the United States Supreme Court held that the right is "not unlimited?" The answer is simply that the high Court has gotten into the habit of reinterpreting their own holdings. Previously, the courts ruled that the Right to keep and bear Arms is an absolute Right, preexisting, natural, above the law, inherent, irrevocable and the Right is not granted by the government. It is an extension of your Right to Life. But, the courts applied the illegally ratified 14th Amendment to the equation and tried to claim that the high Court bestowed the Right on you. They even used the word unlimited as it had not been legally defined. What can you do? I'm only giving you some bare bones; however, there ARE things you can do right now that won't get you thrown into jail or get you sent to Hell. I'll save that just in case this is considered TLDR
And there is that pseudolegal theory and distorted legal argument as made by Resister (who doesn't understand the cases he is using and fails to convey the context in which they put forth). SMFH

And now reality:

The historical context of the United States v. Cruikshank decision is crucial, as it was made before the incorporation of the Bill of Rights to the states via the Fourteenth Amendment. The Cruikshank ruling emphasized that the Second Amendment restricted only federal government actions. Since then, the incorporation doctrine has evolved, applying most of the Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment, to the states.

The state court decisions you mentioned, such as Bliss v. Commonwealth, the 1846 Georgia Supreme Court decision, and Cockrum v. State, reflect significant historical interpretations of the right to bear arms. These decisions underscore a broad interpretation of the right at the state level (prior to the 14A), they do not override federal Supreme Court rulings, which have broader constitutional implications.

The incorporation of the Second Amendment through the Fourteenth Amendment ensures that fundamental rights now apply to the states too, protecting individuals from state infringement. This incorporation process is a cornerstone of constitutional law, ensuring that essential liberties are uniformly protected across the nation. (The 14A is claimed to be illegally ratified by the Resister. SMFH)

In District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court affirmed an individual's right to possess firearms while also recognizing that this right is not unlimited. This decision aligns with the understanding that constitutional rights, including those considered unalienable, can be subject to reasonable regulations that ensure public safety and order.

In conclusion, while historical interpretations provide valuable insights, the evolving legal framework and Supreme Court decisions play a crucial role in defining and protecting Second Amendment rights within the broader constitutional context. It is essential to engage with these legal principles to understand and advocate for Second Amendment rights effectively.
 

TheResister

Elite
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If you want to fight for the Second Amendment, you have to know what is at stake. John Adams, second president of the United States wrote:

"I say RIGHTS, for such they have, undoubtedly, antecedent to all earthly government, -- Rights, that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws -- Rights, derived from the great Legislator of the universe."


That word antecedent conveys a special meaning. It signifies that something is preexisting. The Right to keep and bear Arms is both a pre-existing Right and one of those Rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws. We've already witnessed in the first United States Supreme Court holding on the subject that the government does not grant the Right to keep and bear Arms. The Right is not dependent upon the Constitution for its existence. The United States Supreme Court said so.

"The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." Albert Gallatin, Oct 7 1789

Without multiplying authorities on the subject, the point is the Bill of Rights is a limitation on the federal government. Each of those Rights is unalienable - that is the government did not grant the Right (s) and has no lawful / de jure authority over them. We have to realize that while unalienable can't always be an absolute / absolutist outcome, the road is a journey, not a final destination.

The next point of understanding is that we do not consider POWER VERSUS AUTHORITY. An armed man bursts into a restaurant full of patrons and demands their money. If they are unarmed they have to comply. The robber has the POWER to take their money; he simply lacks the AUTHORITY. It's the same deal with the government. They used our ignorance against us to agree to a proposition not supported by any founding or framing document. That proposition is that government grants R (r)ights. When we adopt the premise that all R(r)ights are created / bestowed by the government, we have no argument against tyranny.

* I took a clue from John Adams. He said "RIGHTS" and I settled for capitalizing the R in Rights when referring to unalienable Rights. In any case once you realize who the grantor of your unalienable Rights is, the rest of what I would say will make sense to you.
 

Liquid Reigns

Poster
Joined
Oct 31, 2023
Messages
273
If the post is being liked, it is being read.

If you want to fight for the Second Amendment, you have to know what is at stake. John Adams, second president of the United States wrote:

"I say RIGHTS, for such they have, undoubtedly, antecedent to all earthly government, -- Rights, that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws -- Rights, derived from the great Legislator of the universe."


That word antecedent conveys a special meaning. It signifies that something is preexisting. The Right to keep and bear Arms is both a pre-existing Right and one of those Rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws. We've already witnessed in the first United States Supreme Court holding on the subject that the government does not grant the Right to keep and bear Arms. The Right is not dependent upon the Constitution for its existence. The United States Supreme Court said so.

"The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." Albert Gallatin, Oct 7 1789

Without multiplying authorities on the subject, the point is the Bill of Rights is a limitation on the federal government. Each of those Rights is unalienable - that is the government did not grant the Right (s) and has no lawful / de jure authority over them. We have to realize that while unalienable can't always be an absolute / absolutist outcome, the road is a journey, not a final destination.

The next point of understanding is that we do not consider POWER VERSUS AUTHORITY. An armed man bursts into a restaurant full of patrons and demands their money. If they are unarmed they have to comply. The robber has the POWER to take their money; he simply lacks the AUTHORITY. It's the same deal with the government. They used our ignorance against us to agree to a proposition not supported by any founding or framing document. That proposition is that government grants R (r)ights. When we adopt the premise that all R(r)ights are created / bestowed by the government, we have no argument against tyranny.

* I took a clue from John Adams. He said "RIGHTS" and I settled for capitalizing the R in Rights when referring to unalienable Rights. In any case once you realize who the grantor of your unalienable Rights is, the rest of what I would say will make sense to you.
It would only take a Constitutional amendment to nullify any one or all of the rights in the Bill of Rights (BoR). While Congress and the Supreme Court can and have "restrained" some of these rights, it is through placing repercussions on certain actions rather than nullifying the rights themselves. For instance, you can yell "fire" in a crowded theater, but there are legal repercussions for causing panic. Similarly, felons are not allowed to possess firearms due to established legal restrictions aimed at protecting public safety.

The Supreme Court has recognized that some rights in the BoR are unalienable, but this does not apply to all rights without limitations. A pre-existing right is not necessarily an unalienable right. Your argument relies on a pseudolegal interpretation that seeks to achieve an outcome based on ideological bias rather than established legal principles.

Regarding power and authority, your analogy about the patrons in a restaurant fails to consider that even unarmed individuals can and do act to subdue a threat. The idea that people are generally ignorant of their rights and the government's role is unfounded. Most people understand that the government is there to protect our rights, deriving its power from the people. When the government fails to do so, we have checks and balances in place to ensure the proper outcome.

Your misrepresentations of our governing documents and form of government undermine your argument. The founding documents established a system of government with built-in mechanisms to balance individual rights with public safety, recognizing that some limitations are necessary and lawful.
 
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