Cost advantage to fuel electric car versus gasoline car is about to flip in Europe (link). Probably coming to America also...

[AgEngDawg]

As Elon Musk backs fossil fuels, one strategist sends a warning over EV sales

Saxo Bank's Peter Garnry made his comments during an interview with "Street Signs Europe."

www.cnbc.com

 

[Taggart]

Doesn't matter... the end goal is to get everyone on government transportation, and this is the method in which to do that. Because once everyone is buying EVs, they will "suddenly" discover how fucking awful the lithium mines are for the environment and demand that EV cars are no longer produced.

 

[Timothy]

Drug producers will steal your expensive batteries to produce illegal lithium pills.

 

[GarnetPild]

What is the actual cost per mile of electric vs gas powered cars? I feel like electricity would have to go up exponentially to make it more expensive that gas.

 

[Timothy]

What is the actual cost per mile of electric vs gas powered cars? I feel like electricity would have to go up exponentially to make it more expensive that gas.

Of course they would have to replace the high gas tax with an equivalent charging tax.

 

[TopHook]

What is the actual cost per mile of electric vs gas powered cars? I feel like electricity would have to go up exponentially to make it more expensive that gas.

They go by the minutes it takes to charge and I want say about .45 a min. And it takes 4 hours to charge? Am I totally off on that?
$108 a charge?

 

[GarnetPild]

They go by the minutes it takes to charge and I want say about .45 a min. And it takes 4 hours to charge? Am I totally off on that?

I'm just talking about the actual cost. I know exactly how much it costs to fill up my vehicle with gas, and how far it will go on a tank. I know how far an electric car can go on a charge, but have absolutely zero idea how much it costs to charge it. I would imagine it is many, many times less than a tank of gas.

 

[TopHook]

I'm just talking about the actual cost. I know exactly how much it costs to fill up my vehicle with gas, and how far it will go on a tank. I know how far an electric car can go on a charge, but have absolutely zero idea how much it costs to charge it. I would imagine it is many, many times less than a tank of gas.

How much does it take to charge when you're not at home?

 

[GarnetPild]

How much does it take to charge when you're not at home?

No idea. Would like to know the answer to that as well.

 

[ChicagoFats]

I'm just talking about the actual cost. I know exactly how much it costs to fill up my vehicle with gas, and how far it will go on a tank. I know how far an electric car can go on a charge, but have absolutely zero idea how much it costs to charge it. I would imagine it is many, many times less than a tank of gas.

A little google research tells me it cost ~$15 to charge your tesla.

 

[Timothy]

Here is one data point for you: batteries are only 80-90% efficient, so there is a loss of energy just by charging up.

Comparing costs is tricky. I remember when auto manufacturers marketed diesel engines for a time because diesel fuel was cheaper back then. That did not last long.

 

[GarnetPild]

A little google research tells me it cost ~$15 to charge your tesla.

Interesting. I would have expected it to be cheaper. $15 is a shitload of electricity IMO. Most single family homes probably don't use that in a day.

 

[LVRebel]

I'm just talking about the actual cost. I know exactly how much it costs to fill up my vehicle with gas, and how far it will go on a tank. I know how far an electric car can go on a charge, but have absolutely zero idea how much it costs to charge it. I would imagine it is many, many times less than a tank of gas.

Interesting. I would have expected it to be cheaper. $15 is a shitload of electricity IMO. Most single family homes probably don't use that in a day.

I'd also like to know how well the batteries hold a charge. Do they retain 99% of their charge on a day to day basis? 95%? Something else? So if you charge it, and don't use it at all for a month, what percentage of the original charge is remaining?

 

[Taggart]

A little google research tells me it cost ~$15 to charge your tesla.

You can prob more than double that if charging on the road at a supercharger... not to mention the amount of time it takes to do so.

 

[ChicagoFats]

You can prob more than double that if charging on the road at a supercharger... not to mention the amount of time it takes to do so.

The amount of time is not that concerning to me for a couple of reasons.

1) If you go to a gas station, pump your gas and go inside and get a snack or take a piss .... you are going to be there for 5-10 minutes depending on the station.

2) a 5-10 min charge, at a good charging station, will get you some pretty good mileage. If you are on a lot of long distance road trips, electric is not for you yet. However, 5-10 minute charge will likely get you enough charge to finish what you need to do and then get home where you can charge overnight for cheaper rates.

Just my .02

 

[ChicagoFats]

I'd also like to know how well the batteries hold a charge. Do they retain 99% of their charge on a day to day basis? 95%? Something else? So if you charge it, and don't use it at all for a month, what percentage of the original charge is remaining?

I imagine they lose some efficacy on a charge. However, TSLA has been responsible for a lot of battery improvements over the years. More efficiency etc. The TSLA is also smart enough to enter a sleep state if it hasn't been used recently and can probably minimize loss. The cars are easily programmable to take advantage of things like that.

For example, it can optimize what time of day to charge based on how much your electricity costs at different times of the day among many other variables.

 

[ChicagoFats]

Interesting. I would have expected it to be cheaper. $15 is a shitload of electricity IMO. Most single family homes probably don't use that in a day.

You can prob more than double that if charging on the road at a supercharger... not to mention the amount of time it takes to do so.

Electricity rates vary signifigantly between states and not sure when this article was written. But If may be much cheaper as @GarnetPild suspected. Lots of variables, but all scenarios are fractions of filling a tank of gas. Except if you live in europe now

 

[Rube Reaper]

Doesn't matter... the end goal is to get everyone on government transportation, and this is the method in which to do that. Because once everyone is buying EVs, they will "suddenly" discover how fucking awful the lithium mines are for the environment and demand that EV cars are no longer produced.

We can only hope!

 

[GarnetPild]

Electricity rates vary signifigantly between states and not sure when this article was written. But If may be much cheaper as @GarnetPild suspected. Lots of variables, but all scenarios are fractions of filling a tank of gas. Except if you live in europe now

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Will never get tired of looking at those smug faces of those german fucks. Once again, Trump was right.

 

[AmericanViking]

Replies say only 5% of EV’s are charged with Electricity coming from “fossil” fuels

 

[LVRebel]

Replies say only 5% of EV’s are charged with Electricity coming from “fossil” fuels

Duh, the other 95% get it from electricity in the power grid.

 

[ChicagoFats]

 

[weaponoffreedom]

fuck CA

 

[Rebarcock.]

I'd also like to know how well the batteries hold a charge. Do they retain 99% of their charge on a day to day basis? 95%? Something else? So if you charge it, and don't use it at all for a month, what percentage of the original charge is remaining?

This is a very good point.
On a bunch of these other model EV I have seen replacement battery costs of 30k. These packs need replacement every 5 years if they make it that far. So tack 6k a yr on to your fuel costs

 

[BurntJ]

This is a very good point.
On a bunch of these other model EV I have seen replacement battery costs of 30k. These packs need replacement every 5 years if they make it that far. So tack 6k a yr on to your fuel costs

This is true….though my brother swear his Tesla will get 7-8 years for $25000+. Unfortunately at the rate the country is going we may not be here in 3-4 years for me to report back.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

This is a very good point.
On a bunch of these other model EV I have seen replacement battery costs of 30k. These packs need replacement every 5 years if they make it that far. So tack 6k a yr on to your fuel costs

Thats what the idiots dont get............you are paying for it somewhere...........

 

[hmt5000]

I've been following several econ guys that think a huge depression is coming with fuel and food shortages. Russia and opec are going to cut production as we go into winter. They have us by the balls.

 

[BurntJ]

I've been following several econ guys that think a huge depression is coming with fuel and food shortages. Russia and opec are going to cut production as we go into winter. They have us by the balls.

This is correct:….but FYI, you don’t need any Econ guys or Inside Info as they are literally publicly stating these things. SA just announced production cut…..after PedoJoe begged to expand.

 

[44Bobcats55]

Here is one data point for you: batteries are only 80-90% efficient, so there is a loss of energy just by charging up.

Comparing costs is tricky. I remember when auto manufacturers marketed diesel engines for a time because diesel fuel was cheaper back then. That did not last long.

Transmission over distance is also a factor. You pay for it indirectly as the actual yield is much lower than the source production. Everyone needs a back yard reactor to make this work.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

I am all about the electric car.......................but here is the thing...

They are going about it all wrong.............By that I mean that the work trucks and such should have been the first thing to change.

Typically, work truck and delivery truck are driven within the 300-350 miles range of currect EVs. They may be able to go a little longer due to the the increased carrying capacity of a 3\4 ton or above truck. Also, these type of trucks are usually owned by companies that are within an urban or commercial area where 3 phase power is normally available, making it easier for 480 volt charging to be done, and easier on the grid.

If they would have done that, and used work trucks for the guinea pig.........then figure out battery tech in real time, got public trust in the EVs, allowed the grid to catch up slowly, etc............

 

[Timothy]

Hope the EVs are not like iPhones, where you have to buy a new one when the battery dies.

otherwise, battery theft will be big business

 

[ChicagoFats]

I am all about the electric car.......................but here is the thing...

They are going about it all wrong.............By that I mean that the work trucks and such should have been the first thing to change.

Typically, work truck and delivery truck are driven within the 300-350 miles range of currect EVs. They may be able to go a little longer due to the the increased carrying capacity of a 3\4 ton or above truck. Also, these type of trucks are usually owned by companies that are within an urban or commercial area where 3 phase power is normally available, making it easier for 480 volt charging to be done, and easier on the grid.

If they would have done that, and used work trucks for the guinea pig.........then figure out battery tech in real time, got public trust in the EVs, allowed the grid to catch up slowly, etc............

IDK, Thinking they did an OK job considering TSLA's valuation.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

IDK, Thinking they did an OK job considering TSLA's valuation.

what?

 

[GarnetPild]

IDK, Thinking they did an OK job considering TSLA's valuation.

Also, I do not think the tech was there until basically now (if even now), to power big ass trucks with batteries. Alot different pushing around a 5,000lb car, vs a 50,000lb+ truck.

 

[ChicagoFats]

what?

You said they are going about it all wrong, yet the company going about it is worth $1 Trillion dollars and created the worlds richest man. They must be doing something right.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

You said they are going about it all wrong, yet the company going about it is worth $1 Trillion dollars and created the worlds richest man. They must be doing something right.

Agreed, but I was not speaking about Musk, but electric cars revolution in general............Point being is that if you really wanted people to get on the bandwagon with the whole "green electric car" thing. Work pickup trcuks would be a better place to start, being as the range of a normal work truck is realistically 200 miles max per day...........and they get horrible gas mileage.

Why start at the cars which already get 35+mpg?

I think if going green was the objective, they are doing it in the wrong order.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Also, I do not think the tech was there until basically now (if even now), to power big ass trucks with batteries. Alot different pushing around a 5,000lb car, vs a 50,000lb+ truck.

I dont mean big rig trucks, I mean everyday pickup trucks like 2500HD and the like.

Like rocketry, you are playing a weight game............it takes X amount of fuel (battery, gas, diesel, hydrogen, etc) to go Y distance........

To this day.......trains are the most efficient way to get freight from A to B................and they are moved by an electric motor....................not an engine.

 

[GarnetPild]

I dont mean big rig trucks, I mean everyday pickup trucks like 2500HD and the like.

Like rocketry, you are playing a weight game............it takes X amount of fuel (battery, gas, diesel, hydrogen, etc) to go Y distance........

To this day.......trains are the most efficient way to get freight from A to B................and they are moved by an electric motor....................not an engine.

True, but weight isn't much of an issue on rails, and of course you know those trains' electric motors are fueled with diesel anyway. Fair enough on the pickup trucks, regardless.

 

[Rube Reaper]

This is a very good point.
On a bunch of these other model EV I have seen replacement battery costs of 30k. These packs need replacement every 5 years if they make it that far. So tack 6k a yr on to your fuel costs

That’s a small price to pay to do the right thing by saving the environment.

 

[Rube Reaper]

You said they are going about it all wrong, yet the company going about it is worth $1 Trillion dollars and created the worlds richest man. They must be doing something right.

Well they are at least attempting to save the world.

Is Musk overpaid? Absolutely. That can be rectified through taxes though.